The big idea: Lead with employee experience.
Shift your mindset from human resources to employee experience.
If you’re leading a team, you will be well versed in hiring employees.
But, are you retaining, growing, keeping and reinventing your team? Is your employee acquisition process effective?
Over these few weeks, our podcasts are exploring Waymaker’s seven leadership questions – but, in reverse. This week, we will unpack how organizations can improve the employee experience through:
- Developing a mindset shift
- Creating a unified and digital experience
- Empowering and equipping your team
- The difference between employee experience and HR
- Importance of talent acquisition
Listen & watch ‘Employee Experience | Re-Thinking Traditional HR”
(Keep reading on for more content.)
Transcript
Lead with Employee Experience
00:02
welcome to leadership talk
00:04
the official waymaker podcast where we
00:07
explore
00:08
how your organization can achieve more
00:11
by doing less
00:21
welcome to leadership talk the official
00:23
waymaker podcast i’m your host craig
00:26
hindman and this is stuart leo ceo and
00:29
founder
00:30
of waymaker how i and there’s a guy
00:33
wandering back and forth in the window
00:34
in the background
00:35
which is fine if you’re listening you
00:38
you won’t have appreciated that
00:39
if you’re watching yeah it’s a live
00:41
studio audience
00:42
of one it’s like the today show with the
00:46
people waving through the window in the
00:47
background yeah
00:48
yeah one day there’ll be placards in the
00:50
background we love you craig we love you
00:52
[Laughter]
00:54
well stu um off off air we’ve just
00:57
solved the
00:59
pandemic correct yeah
01:02
we’re going to tackle far less so if
01:04
you’re a prime minister or a president
01:07
just just give craig a call yeah yeah
01:10
give me a call i’ll let you know what
01:12
stu said
01:14
would be good but um but today we’re
01:16
going to talk about something a little
01:18
different
01:18
and we’re going to talk about employee
01:21
experience
01:22
yeah yeah so i mean if you haven’t
01:24
guessed already we’ve been gradually
01:26
unpeeling the layers of the i was going
01:28
to say layers of the onion but
01:30
um the layers of of waymaker
01:34
um for the last five six seven weeks
01:36
actually what are we up to episode 10
01:38
um last nine weeks um yeah
01:41
something like that i think wow um and
01:44
and we’ve been just stepping through all
01:46
the core modules of the platform
01:48
[Music]
01:49
why it is what it does diagnostic
01:53
road mapping okrs goal setting
01:56
leadership
01:56
management fun fun fun and so we’re
01:59
kicking into
02:01
um i guess the next um part of this
02:04
series
02:05
which is um going deep into the seven
02:08
questions
02:10
and um we’re going to do it in reverse
02:13
because hey we just like to do things
02:15
differently
02:16
so we’re actually going to start with
02:19
employee experience and talk about the
02:22
employee experience curve and talk about
02:23
the
02:24
idea of employee experience because it’s
02:27
um it’s it’s quite different to the idea
02:30
of hr
02:31
and hopefully by the end of this podcast
02:36
you’ve been challenged to have a mindset
02:38
shift
02:40
from going ah actually i wasn’t thinking
02:43
about my people like that
02:46
if you are great fantastic get in use
02:49
our tools
02:50
you know you’re a rock star you’re
02:51
already this is affirmation yeah
02:53
yeah but um but if you’re going actually
02:56
i don’t think like that
02:57
um as you’re listening and thinking
03:00
about this during the podcast in the
03:01
episode that’s cool
03:03
because not many do and i certainly
03:06
didn’t in the past
03:07
at certain times and
03:10
as we’ve explored this topic over the
03:12
last few years it has reinvented and
03:15
transformed my own personal thinking to
03:17
this
03:18
and helped me understand organizations
03:20
and people and leadership and management
03:22
so much better
03:24
[Music]
03:27
you’ve already you know made the
03:29
illusion
03:31
to the connection between ex and hr
03:34
and we’ll unpack that a little bit more
03:35
in this episode but firstly let’s start
03:37
out like
03:38
what is employee experience well um
03:41
employee experience
03:43
um actually i could put in this this
03:46
kind of term it’s
03:48
it’s the sum um some of the parts or the
03:51
end state
03:52
i like to call an end state of a unified
03:56
physical and digital platform or
03:59
experience
04:00
that equips and empowers teams
04:02
particularly leaders
04:04
to create the inspirational branded
04:07
moments and
04:08
and and the great moments at every stage
04:10
and touch point
04:11
of the customer journey and
04:14
and so the the employee experience i’ll
04:17
say that again it’s the end state
04:18
of a unified physical and digital
04:20
platform that equips
04:22
and empowers leaders and teams to create
04:25
inspirational branded moments or
04:27
inspirational moments
04:29
at every stage and touch point of the
04:31
customer journey
04:35
it’s very much the sum of the parts
04:38
on how we acquire retain
04:42
grow keep and reinvent talent
04:45
throughout an organization and
04:49
and so it’s it’s a different mindset
04:52
to thinking about hr
04:56
um which we’ll come to in a moment and
04:58
and and when i talk about that
04:59
definition i think it’s probably worth
05:01
picking out a few key points
05:02
um an end state so it’s a sum of
05:04
experiences it’s an experience
05:07
right um that’s probably the first thing
05:09
to say it’s it’s a felt
05:11
and lived experience um
05:14
and uh that felt and lived experience
05:17
should have um physical
05:20
and digital touch points so what do i
05:24
mean by that
05:24
um uh well
05:27
from the very start of of the journey uh
05:30
the employee journey
05:32
when we’re thinking about um where can
05:35
we work how can we contribute
05:38
we’re touching an organization how do i
05:42
understand that organization
05:44
what would i be working or doing if i
05:46
was working with or for this
05:48
organization
05:50
and they’re probably some of the early
05:52
digital touch points we know from high
05:54
consideration sales that
05:55
more than two-thirds and by the way i
05:58
use the term sales because we’re
05:59
actually pitching for talent in this
06:00
world
06:01
yeah right um we know from traditional b
06:04
to b
06:05
high consideration journeys that people
06:08
are more than two thirds of the way
06:09
through their buyers journey
06:11
before they really pop up and tell you
06:12
who they are
06:14
and and the similar sorts of statistics
06:16
appear in employee experience and
06:18
and talent acquisition so it’s it’s an
06:21
experience physical and digital
06:22
there’s so you’re saying they’ve already
06:24
decided that
06:26
you know whether or not they want to
06:27
work for you or
06:29
well i i think um in
06:34
in this um world of
06:37
com competition for talent um if i can
06:40
put it like that
06:42
there’s this dance going on between
06:46
um talent and people who can foster and
06:48
grow that talent
06:49
um and pay compensation for that talent
06:53
and there’s a lot of competition today
06:55
for that talent
06:56
um 10 20 30 years ago
07:00
there was a lot less competition there
07:03
was
07:04
there was more
07:08
likelihood that our parents spent
07:11
10 or 15 years in a row
07:14
and it was likely that their parents
07:17
spent
07:18
sometimes decades or entire life i know
07:20
my grandfather
07:21
when he came back from the war he spent
07:24
his entire life
07:25
working for the toowoomba foundry and
07:29
and retired uh picked up the golden
07:32
watch and
07:33
and that was it that was working life i
07:35
know my father probably had
07:37
three or four key roles as
07:40
um as i was growing up
07:44
max over the course of his career um but
07:47
i know i had three or four
07:48
key roles by the time i was 30 and yeah
07:51
and so and i know our kids are gonna be
07:54
different and and so
07:55
not only is there competition for
07:57
employees and
07:58
and and and a fight for talent but
08:01
there’s a lot of substitutes
08:02
um so the capacity to freelance
08:05
and um be your own boss today
08:08
is just um it’s just a
08:12
a such an easier thing to do today than
08:14
what it was 10 20 30 years ago
08:17
um and so there’s a huge amount of
08:19
competition for talent
08:20
and and there’s not as much loyalty as
08:22
they used to be right like i’m not
08:24
necessarily loyal to a
08:25
to a brand or an organization as much as
08:28
say previous generation was i’m i’m more
08:32
you know free market that’s a free
08:34
enterprise
08:36
yeah there’s a greater sense of
08:39
loyalty to outcomes versus loyalty to
08:42
providers
08:44
and i reckon we’re the first generation
08:46
that i think we’ve witnessed this
08:47
transition firsthand i’m going to derail
08:49
you for a second because i watch this
08:50
when it comes to football trading season
08:52
and and like a generation ago you would
08:56
never have
08:57
heard of the captain of one team you
08:59
know taking a multi-year deal
09:01
for another team it’s just like that’s
09:02
just not what you do and now it’s just
09:04
like
09:04
just part of the industry yeah people
09:06
people will move clubs mid-season now
09:08
yeah like it’s a different mindset it’s
09:10
like the power’s back on the
09:12
employee maybe a lot more work on the
09:14
talent yeah and
09:16
and i think you know rightly or wrongly
09:18
there’s pros and cons on all of those
09:20
um that’s the world we live in so yeah
09:23
this isn’t an ethical statement on what
09:25
we should or shouldn’t do this is a
09:26
reality statement and so
09:28
in our um question um so with
09:31
ex is question six in the seven
09:33
questions
09:34
right um you know how do we acquire
09:36
retain and grow our talent through
09:38
our organization’s principles or brand
09:40
principles
09:41
um and when i say principles i mean
09:43
values and what drives our culture
09:46
and what improvements do we need to make
09:48
so question six
09:50
how do we acquire retain and grow our
09:52
talent through our core principles
09:54
culture
09:55
um and what improvements do we need to
09:56
make and and so there’s a reason why we
09:58
talk about talent
09:59
not employees even though the the
10:02
industry talks about this idea
10:04
of ex employee experience right i want
10:07
to make the point
10:09
that really it should be talent
10:11
experience
10:13
because i don’t want to pigeonhole this
10:14
just to employees
10:16
because in any organization
10:19
talent is coming from employees
10:22
freelancers contractors strategic
10:25
partners
10:27
it’s a it’s a different
10:30
very different way of looking at talent
10:34
in today’s world than what we did 10 20
10:36
30 years ago
10:37
there are different structures at play
10:39
it’s it’s very easy well
10:41
say waymaker you know we we have
10:42
wonderful people that partner with us
10:44
amazing consultants that are
10:47
partners that ambassador the brand when
10:50
they’re
10:51
implementing waymaker software and doing
10:53
great consulting and coaching
10:56
they’re not us they’re not our employees
10:58
but we consider them our colleagues
11:00
um we consider them um part of the
11:03
family around the table
11:04
probably shouldn’t use the same family
11:05
but you know what i mean we’re part of
11:07
the
11:08
part of the team um and uh
11:11
the the idea here is that
11:15
talent needs nurturing and whether we’re
11:17
on boarding a new employee
11:19
a new freelancer a new contractor a new
11:21
partner
11:23
we’ve actually got to kind of think
11:24
about that in a different light
11:26
and and so this end state of a unified
11:30
physical digital platform that equips
11:32
and empowers
11:34
to create those inspirational moments at
11:37
every stage and touch point of what
11:39
the customer’s journey so why do the why
11:42
does this talent exist
11:43
for the customer yeah um
11:47
what are we equipping empowering people
11:48
for during the employee experience
11:51
amazing customer moments so let’s let’s
11:54
be real here that’s employee experience
11:57
doesn’t exist
11:58
just for the sake of the employee it
12:01
exists for the employee
12:03
so that they can deliver amazing
12:06
customer experiences
12:08
and and that’s why it’s question six um
12:11
and there’s no order or priority to the
12:13
questions um
12:15
but rather it’s question six in our um
12:18
uh in our framework because it’s not the
12:22
last thing
12:22
but rather the most important thing to
12:25
go
12:26
how do we create the talent to deliver
12:28
the customer experience
12:29
designed by the business model
12:31
positioned by the strategy
12:33
serving this market and ideal customer
12:35
in order to solve this purpose and
12:37
deliver this ultimate vision
12:39
that’s why it sits in that framework in
12:41
that order
12:42
does that make sense yeah so stu we
12:45
have an experienced curve as part of our
12:48
waymaker platform
12:49
how should we think about employee
12:51
experience as part of that
12:53
experience curve in the context of that
12:55
curve
12:56
yeah i mean good question um
13:01
within within waymaker there’s there’s
13:03
what we call
13:04
the business level experience curves so
13:06
where are we on the journey from idea
13:08
to market leadership
13:12
and then we have an experience curve for
13:13
each part of the
13:15
seven or six questions really from
13:18
vision all the way through to employee
13:20
experience
13:21
and so when we talk about the employee
13:24
experience curve we’re talking about
13:26
where are we on the journey from idea
13:29
to market leadership and maturity in
13:32
this context
13:34
of the employee experience um
13:37
and and so when we’re we’re looking at
13:40
the diagnostic
13:41
and looking at the ex curve in
13:44
particular
13:46
we’re looking at how well are we
13:48
creating that unified physical and
13:50
digital platform that equips and
13:51
empowers
13:52
talent to deliver those amazing customer
13:55
experience moments and so
13:57
as we know from previous episodes the
14:00
top side of the experience curve is all
14:02
about
14:02
skills and and qualities and the bottom
14:05
side of the experience curve
14:07
is all about systems
14:10
processes tools so we broadly talk about
14:12
top skills bottom systems
14:14
broad buckets of ideas
14:17
and there’s a lot there is a lot um
14:20
and we talk about the experience curve
14:22
having a series of stages so
14:24
finding market fit to calibrating and
14:27
building teams
14:29
to getting consistent returns as we
14:31
mature to becoming real leaders
14:33
and earning points so so as we think
14:35
about employee experience we’re thinking
14:37
about
14:38
how well are we understanding the
14:41
personas
14:42
now that’s an interesting new term for
14:44
people traditionally in
14:45
hr they might talk about roles and
14:47
responsibilities or jobs
14:49
but rather we talk about personas right
14:52
what are the types of people
14:54
that we need to acquire
14:57
and how do they fit the roles we have to
15:00
provide
15:00
what’s the employee journey look like
15:02
from first touch
15:04
to um to exit and
15:09
how do we define roles what’s our
15:11
acquisition strategy
15:13
what are our cultural foundations
15:17
how do we manage documentation
15:20
is there a hr crm going on
15:23
is is there how do we collaborate
15:26
together
15:26
how do we give people an identity inside
15:28
the technology systems
15:30
we’re talking about all the things that
15:33
when you
15:34
um begin to go on this journey of oh
15:37
gosh could i work for
15:38
with this organization how do you
15:42
friction frictionlessly engage
15:45
acquire and engage those people in order
15:48
to
15:48
get amazing work done and so the ex
15:51
curve
15:52
is giving circa 25 to 30
15:56
um digital and physical attributes to go
16:00
where are we in our in our journey of
16:03
employee experience
16:04
where can we improve and and so when we
16:07
look at that
16:08
curve it should be prompting us to say
16:10
hmm
16:11
firstly um are we thinking ex versus
16:16
hr which would be controversial to
16:20
some um professionals uh and that’s okay
16:23
um it’s it’s controversial in the same
16:27
way that cx is to marketing
16:28
or sales or service and i’ll come to
16:30
that in a moment yeah um
16:32
so how are we thinking about the
16:34
employee experience
16:36
how we’re thinking about nurturing
16:37
talent and are we specifically building
16:40
acquisition
16:41
retention and growth strategies into our
16:43
talent
16:44
and and the the employee experience
16:47
curve will help you surface the gaps
16:51
um where you can go gosh yeah we’re not
16:54
really thinking about
16:55
this we’re not really thinking about our
16:57
cultural foundations we’re not thinking
16:58
about on our onboarding program
17:00
not thinking about our off-boarding
17:03
program
17:04
otherwise known as an exit which in
17:06
today’s day and age
17:07
um is not about you know the traditional
17:10
idea of hiring and firing but how do you
17:12
onboard and off-board people
17:14
recognizing that that organizations um
17:18
flex in and out according to market
17:20
demands according to cycles in their
17:22
growth journey
17:23
and and so off boarding or exiting
17:25
people is not a negative
17:26
that’s that’s a genuinely good thing um
17:30
and the contracting consulting industry
17:31
is used to this uh
17:34
and so there are there are there are
17:36
lessons to learn as organizations
17:38
and to think about the journey of the
17:39
employee so that’s what the employee
17:41
experience curve is doing
17:42
is that making sense yeah and you kind
17:44
of like you started to
17:45
um bleed into my next question which is
17:47
just i guess
17:49
deep diving a little bit into the
17:50
difference between uh
17:52
yeah employee experience and hr
17:54
traditional hr
17:55
and what the what the differences are
17:57
and you can touch on some of those but
17:59
did you want to sort of expand on that a
18:00
little bit
18:01
we should go into that a little bit
18:02
deeper shouldn’t we um
18:04
i think um i think the
18:08
let me put it this way um and i know hr
18:11
departments don’t always think
18:13
as as critically as this but i’ll just
18:15
set this up to be
18:17
black and white often organizations
18:22
treat hr and it’s so badly named
18:25
human resources you know it’s that’s
18:27
terrible it’s like
18:28
um you know you’re treating people as
18:30
objects on the factory line
18:32
and it’s and it’s it’s left over from
18:34
this industrial mindset
18:36
of you know putting a thousand people in
18:38
a factory and
18:39
starting off with ingredients and ending
18:41
up with a widget at the other end
18:43
human resources it’s just a terrible
18:45
idea
18:46
people are people and and they have
18:47
inherent values and
18:49
um and when we treat them as resources
18:53
we end up treating them badly and so i’m
18:56
not saying that hr people do this in
18:58
fact they’re probably the ones in the
19:00
organization trying to champion the
19:01
opposite of this
19:02
but it’s the idea left inside us from
19:06
the factory mindset and
19:09
um and that idea ideas have consequences
19:13
and that idea of hr permeates out
19:16
through leaders and managers
19:18
to going uh well that human resource
19:21
didn’t work very well
19:22
kick them out get another one in the
19:25
same way that that tire didn’t work very
19:26
well
19:27
take it off get another one and we start
19:30
to think about
19:31
humans as objects and
19:34
and we objectify them and um both you
19:38
and i have had some lived experience
19:40
going through this in organizations
19:42
i’m not throwing you the in the deep end
19:44
there but you know what it’s
19:46
really really crappy um and it sucks
19:49
and and there have been times as a
19:51
leader and a manager
19:52
i’ve i’ve done that to people and i’ve
19:55
stepped back and gone oh
19:56
man wowzers um i’m so sorry
19:59
you know we fall into this it’s easy to
20:02
fall into so
20:04
this idea of hr being about managing
20:07
managing people remembering when we
20:08
talked leadership and management we said
20:10
leaders lead people and people manage
20:12
systems and
20:14
hr you know spins that on its head and
20:17
gets people thinking they must manage
20:19
people like they would manage an object
20:21
and it’s just a
20:22
terrible idea i think i think during the
20:26
parallel
20:26
to that industrialized you know the
20:28
industrial revolution and like
20:30
the people were commodities or you know
20:33
correct
20:34
yeah or whatever is a really good yeah
20:37
and it comes from that that horrible
20:38
time in history
20:39
where um you know if the 13 year old kid
20:43
came out coughing and splattering from
20:45
that coal mine
20:46
you just went and got another one and um
20:49
yeah
20:50
and and you know and all political views
20:52
aside um
20:54
that’s why we have great labor movements
20:56
and union movements of today
20:58
because um people took advantage of
21:01
people
21:02
and um and and we need to acknowledge
21:06
that when when we think about people as
21:08
capital
21:09
we’re not thinking about people and how
21:12
do you stop it
21:13
though from you know organizations ceos
21:16
managers that sort of thing walking on
21:18
eggshells because they’ve just got to
21:19
like
21:20
you know panda to the you know felt
21:23
needs of the employees all the time well
21:25
it doesn’t mean you remove
21:26
objectivity it doesn’t mean you you go
21:28
oh well i must
21:30
you know pander to you in order to
21:31
retain this talent
21:33
um employee experience is about setting
21:35
up a customer journey
21:38
for talent and and you know we talk
21:41
about this in customer experience and
21:43
sales and marketing service not every
21:44
customer is a good customer
21:46
there have been a few customers in my
21:48
time that we’ve looked each other fair
21:50
in the eye and said
21:51
yeah i don’t think we’re good for each
21:52
other you’re not a good customer for me
21:54
and i’m not a good supplier to you
21:57
uh let’s fire each other um you know and
22:00
that’s a
22:00
um that’s a that’s a terrible quite that
22:03
jovial
22:05
it’s definitely not um and there have
22:07
been loads of customers where it’s like
22:08
i just want to serve you
22:10
um because you’re a great fit for us and
22:12
in in a lot of
22:13
service organizations and a lot of b2b
22:16
organizations you talk about
22:17
ideal customer fit you know not every
22:20
product and service is ideal for every
22:22
customer
22:23
and and there is a bit of a myth out
22:24
there in customer land that
22:27
that just because they’re a customer you
22:28
should serve them
22:30
sometimes it’s bad customer service to
22:33
sell them what you’re selling them
22:34
they’re just not ready for it they’re
22:35
just not good for it they’re not going
22:37
to be able to pay for it
22:39
not every customer should be served and
22:42
and that sounds like a radical idea
22:45
but it’s not um not every talent
22:49
even though they might have great talent
22:51
should stay in your organization
22:53
yeah and and so we don’t ignore
22:56
the cultural character
23:00
um aspects of the competency and
23:03
capability elements of
23:05
of the talent but at the same time
23:09
we don’t treat the talent like an object
23:13
and pull them in screw them hard for
23:15
three four
23:16
five years chuck them out when there’s
23:18
nothing left of them
23:19
and go get another one that’s human
23:22
resource
23:23
capital management employee experience
23:26
says
23:26
gosh just like a customer you should
23:29
come into our organization
23:32
and you should leave better for it
23:34
because if you leave better for it
23:36
our customers are better for you and
23:39
you’re now a brand advocate
23:41
for what we’re doing here and that’s a
23:44
mindset shift that’s a
23:47
it’s really hard like it’s so hard
23:50
which is why there’s an employee
23:51
experience curve because it’s hard
23:55
and and it really shifts your thinking i
23:58
i have a
23:59
felt shift in it when i think about my
24:01
team around me
24:03
[Music]
24:05
and and you go gosh i’ve got to think
24:07
about this differently
24:08
the other thing it does
24:12
is that it acknowledges where you are as
24:14
an organization
24:16
in that employee experience journey so
24:18
um
24:19
you know we’re at this time of in point
24:21
we’re a young startup
24:23
um uh you know we’re about a year old
24:26
with less than a decent quarter in the
24:28
marketplace
24:29
um and if you’re listening to this in
24:31
one or two or three years time
24:33
i hope you know we’re just don’t go wow
24:35
gee that sounds surprising
24:36
they’re doing so well
24:40
but that’s the reality of where we are
24:42
today which means the way we onboard
24:43
somebody today
24:45
is going to be very different to the way
24:47
we onboard somebody next quarter and in
24:49
eight quarters time
24:51
and because each quarter we’re asking
24:54
and answering the seven questions of
24:55
which ex
24:56
is one determining the highest
24:58
priorities but continuously
25:00
improving and ensuring that we’re
25:02
lifting that and growing that maturity
25:04
so the big difference and i’ve kind of
25:06
rambled a bit there
25:09
the big difference between hr and ex is
25:12
it
25:12
reframes the context it shifts the
25:14
mindset
25:15
ex says right as an organization
25:18
um our sole job is to acquire customers
25:22
but in order to acquire customers
25:24
through our unique new product service
25:26
and innovation
25:27
yeah we actually need to acquire talent
25:29
to sustain
25:30
the acquiring of customers and we need
25:33
to treat talent
25:34
kind of like the same way we treat
25:36
customers that as
25:38
customers come in and engage with us and
25:40
if they’re the right fit they’re going
25:41
to grow
25:42
and retain with us and they’re going to
25:44
leave us one day
25:45
better for having known us and we’re
25:48
going to
25:49
attract and grow and retain and develop
25:52
talent
25:52
and they’re going to leave us one day
25:55
off-boarding or
25:56
exiting and that’s okay in fact we
25:57
expect that to happen
25:59
but they’re going to leave us better for
26:02
having known us
26:03
and therefore we’re better for having
26:06
known them
26:07
and there’s been an equitable exchange
26:09
of value
26:10
going on there’s a value proposition to
26:12
the talent as much as there’s a value
26:14
proposition
26:15
to the customer and our
26:18
and our talent exists for the purpose of
26:21
the customer
26:22
not for the purpose of the leader or the
26:24
manager and our customer exists
26:26
not for the purpose of the talent but
26:28
for the purpose of the value
26:30
we’re creating to them does that make
26:32
sense
26:33
yeah it’s really really good um so i’m a
26:36
manager i’m a
26:38
ceo of an organization and you’ve just
26:41
kind of like
26:42
blown my mind right now you’ve just kind
26:44
of messed with my thinking
26:46
um probably just because i’ve approached
26:49
um employees under that
26:52
banner of hr for so long how do i start
26:56
shifting you know my organization to
27:00
start
27:00
looking at employees in this way
27:04
so that’s a great question um
27:07
and you’ve really got to step back and
27:10
go
27:11
okay um i’m i’m
27:16
i’m listening i’m hearing that there’s a
27:17
better way out there of thinking about
27:20
people am i prepared to go on a journey
27:25
that’s going to up end and create some
27:27
discomfort for a period of time
27:30
in order to achieve something utterly
27:33
transformational
27:35
[Music]
27:36
and if you are prepared to do that you
27:39
know work with a waymaker advisor work
27:41
with a coach or a consultant
27:45
and and think through one of the very
27:47
first things you can start to do
27:50
which is the very first thing we do on
27:52
the customer experience side
27:54
is to step back and go what does our
27:57
employee journey look like
28:00
and so if you jump into any of our
28:02
playbooks and resources
28:04
in waymaker academy in ex you’ll find
28:09
an ex journey
28:12
and it’s going to set up an employee
28:16
journey how do we acquire
28:19
what are the messages what are the hot
28:20
buttons what are the touch points
28:22
what are the roadblocks and challenges
28:25
how do we bring somebody out there who
28:28
doesn’t know us yet
28:30
into knowing us so aware um
28:33
into considering us into actually
28:35
deciding to
28:37
work with us and then how do we retain
28:41
them
28:42
what does the first 30 days 90 days 365
28:46
days look like
28:48
and how do we grow them how what what
28:51
are we doing
28:52
in order to to grow that person
28:56
a lot of organizations think that it’s
28:58
not their job
28:59
to grow their people that’s the job of
29:02
the individual and
29:04
in part that’s right the only person
29:05
responsible for your growth
29:07
is you but you growing you
29:10
inside an organization that wants to
29:12
grow you is like
29:14
soil and water and a great tree is going
29:17
to survive with both
29:19
so we’ve got we’ve got to think about
29:21
that um
29:22
so it’s more than just paying a paying a
29:24
pd
29:26
correct i mean you think about it
29:27
economically although i’m trying to get
29:29
you to not think about it economically
29:31
but if you have a resource and you just
29:35
treat it as a value in today’s dollars
29:38
well the curse of inflation means that
29:40
in two three four five years time
29:42
it’s worth significantly less if you
29:44
have not
29:45
increased and grown it so no
29:48
economically minded leader
29:50
is going to let resources deplete you
29:53
want to
29:54
replenish them nourish them and sustain
29:56
them and grow them
29:57
so although you know slap across the
29:59
face and i want you thinking
30:00
economically about people
30:02
it helps to have an economic mindset as
30:05
part of the holistic mindset
30:08
so we’ve got to think about how do we
30:09
grow those people and and so when we
30:11
step back
30:12
and we’re going where do we start well
30:15
if you are building a
30:16
customer experience program you go
30:19
wow what are the roadblocks and
30:21
challenges to acquiring customers
30:23
i’d start there what are the roadblocks
30:25
and challenges to acquiring talent
30:27
um gosh have you been through
30:30
your application process recently does
30:33
it suck
30:34
completely you know
30:38
some organizations it’s like bureaucracy
30:42
trying to get through that process and
30:45
and
30:46
and yeah there’s reasons to filter
30:47
people out but my goodness
30:50
talk about a friction full
30:54
experience versus a friction free
30:56
experience
30:57
and in customer experience we’re always
31:00
trying to identify
31:01
roadblocks challenges friction we want
31:04
to make it friction free
31:06
for the right customer to find us
31:09
get in buy us grow with us move on
31:13
we want to do the same with talent so
31:15
what kind of friction exists
31:17
that’s what i’ll be saying and then
31:19
remap it just start there
31:21
start with that remap it design a
31:23
customer journey
31:25
do it with your leaders your hr team
31:27
your key leaders
31:30
do it with some employees get some
31:32
feedback
31:33
um and then test it you know get an mvp
31:36
up in
31:37
two three four weeks and pop it out
31:39
there for the next role and see what
31:40
happens
31:42
you might be dramatically surprised and
31:44
and as you start to do that you’re going
31:46
to reframe
31:47
how you think about talent and you’ll
31:50
start to go gosh
31:51
um the better i can acquire retaining
31:53
great talent the better i can acquire
31:55
retain and grow customers
31:57
sorry have you done any no no this is
31:59
completely um
32:00
left afield have you done any research
32:02
lately on
32:04
employee retention rates in
32:07
organizations and what’s good and what’s
32:08
not um well we haven’t and looked at
32:11
that that is just a function of what are
32:14
we prioritizing right now
32:16
but i mean that’s varying widely accord
32:18
wildly according to industry and
32:20
organization
32:22
but i don’t think a retention rate
32:26
is a retention rate valid yes a
32:28
retention rate is valid
32:29
is it the only valid uh metric and i’d
32:32
say no
32:33
um i think um
32:38
we think about a net promoter score as
32:40
one of those top
32:41
you know few metrics we track in
32:43
customer experience
32:44
which is a measure of advocacy a
32:46
customer has towards a brand
32:49
so i’d be looking at employee
32:52
net promoter scores or talent promoter
32:55
scores
32:56
not just from employees but from
32:58
partners and suppliers and the people
33:00
working with you to make things happen
33:03
and i’d be looking at engagement rates
33:06
i’d be thinking about engagement and
33:08
advocacy and satisfaction
33:11
in employee experience in the same way
33:13
we do in customer experience
33:14
and i think hr has a similar
33:17
transformation going on to what sales
33:19
and marketing and service had
33:22
many years ago and and from 2-8 to 220
33:26
we’ve really had this transformation of
33:28
traditional silo departments
33:30
into understanding business
33:33
through the customer experience and the
33:35
employee experience
33:37
and that’s why we talk about those two
33:39
experiences
33:40
um inside the experience curve framework
33:44
that’s awesome hey we might need to wrap
33:46
this one up this is actually part one
33:48
of a couple of episodes we’re going to
33:50
commit to
33:52
just talking about employee experience
33:55
um
33:56
but you know if you want to get started
33:58
if you actually just like
33:59
you know need to figure out where you
34:01
sit on the
34:02
employee experience a curve then um you
34:05
can jump on waymaker.io
34:07
take the diagnostic if i said that right
34:10
she
34:10
you smiled okay um i was just just
34:14
mutual what am i saying admiring you
34:17
craig
34:17
okay thank you thank you yeah uh take
34:20
the diagnostic
34:21
take the diagnostic and you can actually
34:23
like start mapping out what that
34:24
actually looks like
34:25
uh for your employees as you know as
34:28
well so as well as you know your
34:30
customers and
34:31
et cetera et cetera so uh this um
34:35
you know this this episode we’ve talked
34:36
about okay what’s the difference between
34:38
ex and hr um we’re going to talk in
34:41
future episodes about
34:42
um ex performance ex culture frameworks
34:45
that type of thing so
34:47
yeah there’s a couple of exciting
34:48
episodes coming up um
34:50
uh the next one we’re going to talk
34:51
about how we create the link between
34:53
organizational goals and metrics to
34:56
employee and talent goals and metrics
34:59
and how you can design that and we’ve
35:00
got a playbook around that
35:02
it’s really hard and most organizations
35:04
actually miss it um
35:06
so we’ve simplified that for for most
35:08
and we’re going to talk about that in
35:09
our next episode
35:11
awesome sounds like a good way to talk
35:13
about how to achieve more
35:14
by doing that
35:18
[Music]
35:25
[Applause]
35:27
[Music]
35:32
you
It all starts with the employee experience
The idea of the employee experience is quite different to Human Resources (HR). It is about having a mindset shift on “I wasn’t quite thinking of my people like that”.
So we ask ourselves, what is the employee experience?
Let’s define our terms, the employee experience is the end state of a unified physical and digital platform or experience that equips and empowers teams, particularly leaders that aim to create inspirational branded moments at every stage and touchpoint of the customer journey. It is the sum of the parts of how we retain, grow, keep, reinvent the talent throughout an organization.
As a result, it is a different mindset from just thinking about HR.
End state = sum of experiences
It is the felt and lived experience that should have physical and digital touch-points which act as the starting the employee journey – where we can work and how we can work.
We know from traditional B2B, in high consideration journeys people are more than half way through the journey before they really show up and tell you who they are. Similar statistics are found in employee experience and talent acquisition – therefore, it is both a digital and physical experience.
There is world competition for talent
There’s this dance going on between talent and people who can foster and grow that talent and pay compensation for that talent.
Twenty or thirty years ago, there was a lot less competition for talent. There was a higher likelihood that our parents spent 10 or 15 years in a row within the same career.
Now, not only is there competition for employees and a fight for talent but there are a lot of substitutes. So, the capacity to freelance or be your own boss is an easier thing to do today than it was 20 or 30 years ago.
Loyalty doesn’t come around as easily in the 21st century
As a generation, we are not always loyal to one particular brand or organization as much as previous generations were. We are a more free market. More people are loyal to outcomes than to providers. This is something we are witnessing for the first time as a generation.
The 7 Questions are the questions of clarity, alignment and results for your organization. Question 6 out of the 7 questions is – “What is our employee experience, how do we acquire, retain and grow our talent through our principles and what improvements need to be made?”
By this, we mean what drives a business’s culture and what improvements must be made. What are the ways in which we can acquire, retain, and grow our talent through our core principles and culture, and where do we need to improve?
It’s about talent rather than employees
At Waymaker, we talk about employee talent rather than employees, despite the industry talking about this idea of employee experience.
Having partners who implement Waymaker software, conduct great consulting, help coach, and advocate the brand is something we are proud of. They are not just our employees; they are a part of our business community as well.
Talent needs nurturing, and whether we’re onboarding new employees, freelancers, or a contractor, we must imagine the end state of a unified digital and physical platform that will empower and equip these companies to create those momentous customer experiences at every stage and touchpoint.
What are we equipping and empowering people for during the employee experience?
Answer. Amazing brand moments.
The employee experience doesn’t just exist for the employee – it is there so they can deliver amazing customer experiences and that’s why it’s question 6.
It determines how we create the talent that will create the customer experience – designed by the business model, positioned by the strategy, serving this market and ideal customer in order to accomplish this purpose and deliver this ultimate vision.
How should we think about the employee experience as part of the Waymaker Experience Curve?
When we talk about where we are on the journey from idea to market leadership and maturity, in this context of employee experience, we’re looking at the diagnostic and looking at the EX curve in particular.
We are looking at how well we are creating that unified physical and digital platform that equips and empowers talent to deliver those amazing customer experience moments.
The top side of the experience curve is all about skills and qualities and the bottom side is all about systems, processes and tools.
We talk about the experience curve as having a series of stages, from finding a market fit to calibrating and assembling a team to get consistent returns as we mature into becoming real leaders and gaining economical benefit for the organization.
How well are we understanding employee personas?
When we think about the employee experience, we’re thinking about how well we are understanding personas. In HR, they talk about roles and responsibilities or jobs but rather we identify the importance of talking about personas.
- What are the types of people that we need to acquire;
- How do they fit the roles we have to provide;
- What is the employee journey going to look like from the first touch to exit;
- How do we define roles, and;
- What’s our acquisition strategy?
The employee experience curve will help you identify areas for improvement, so you may ask yourself…
“We are not really thinking about that in our cultural foundations or our onboarding program or off-boarding programs – but there are other areas we may be able to improve in”.
While this process contrasts with a traditional hiring and firing system, it shows how you onboard and off-board people, taking into account the fact that companies flex in and out of growth cycles according to market demands.
This process results in a more positive off-boarding process. This is so the off-boarding journey isn’t so negative.
Talent that exists via an off-boarding process can still be an advocate for your employee brand.
Employee Experience vs. HR
In an organization, there are lessons to learn when it comes to the employee experience.
Organizations can often fall into the trap of treating employees as objects. This is leftover from an industrial mindset.
When we treat employees as resources, we end up treating them badly and often if the leaders and managers don’t like someone or didn’t work very well they just fire them.
There’s a myth out there in customer land that just because they’re a customer you should service them.
Sometimes it’s bad customer service to sell them what you’re selling them. Talent follows a similar principle.
Even if they have great talent, they might not be right for your organization. Therefore, we don’t ignore the cultural elements.
The same goes for employees at your organization. They should come in and leave better off for their experience. Our customers will be better for it, and in turn, your employee is a brand advocate.
It’s a mindset shift.
The big difference between HR and the EX is it creates a mindset shift.
A company’s sole job is to acquire customers. However, in order to acquire customers through our unique product, service or innovation, we actually need to acquire talent to sustain the acquisition of customers.
We need to treat talent the same way we treat customers.
When they’re the right fit, they’ll grow and stay with us and leave us one day better for having known us.
Create an equitable exchange of value during the off-boarding process
Our talent exists to serve the customer, so it’s also a value proposition for our company. Not just for the leader or the manager – the customer does not just exist so we can attract talent, but so they can obtain value we are able to provide.
If you’re prepared to make this change, work with a Waymaker advisor, coach or consultant
Take a step back and think about what your employee journey looks like?
Jump into any of our playbooks and resources in Waymaker academy and start setting up your employee journey.
To get started, learn where you sit on the employee experience curve.
