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Waymaker Podcast: Run effective meetings S1:E10

by | Jul 15, 2021

The big idea: learn how to run effective meetings.

If you’re in an organisation, you’ll be turning up to meetings.

Are they good? Are they effective? Are they worthwhile?

Being busy does not equal being effective. To be effective you must be hitting goals.

Therefore, if time is being spent in meetings, those meetings ought to enable people to hit their goals and deliver on their objectives.

In this podcast we unpack the four meetings every organisation must master.

They are:

  • The Leadership team meeting
  • The one-one-one
  • The daily huddle, and
  • The sales meeting.

Listen & watch ‘How to run effective meetings’

(Keep reading on for more content.)

Transcript

How to run effective meetings

 

00:02
welcome to leadership talk
00:04
the official waymaker podcast where we
00:07
explore
00:08
how your organization can achieve more
00:11
by doing less
00:22
welcome to leadership talk the official
00:24
waymaker podcast
00:25
i’m your host craig and with me is
00:28
ceo and founder of waymaker stuart leo
00:32
stew hello craig hey bud how are you
00:36
yeah doing well stu you’ve just moved
00:38
house this week so
00:40
uh the 15th time in three months
00:44
[Music]
00:46
i’ve just i’ve just moved down the road
00:48
to a different uh different underpass
00:50
that’s all
00:51
oh yeah oh wow hashtag startup life
00:55
whole family uh thunderstorms and
00:59
and and house damage and all that that
01:01
sort of stuff so you you’ll be right in
01:02
the frame of mind to talk about
01:04
talking about all things yeah we are we
01:07
are blessed to have a
01:08
great new spot um and um
01:12
uh yeah i’m not thinking straight
01:14
because i’m like i’ve been used to
01:16
dragging boxes and chairs around the
01:18
house but no no no it’s
01:20
um as our kids as our kids are learning
01:23
um life is an adventure and
01:26
um with adventure comes new things and
01:30
new ideas so how how adapt how apt
01:33
and appropriate for waymaker i am going
01:35
to
01:36
derail this right up front because um my
01:38
wife and i are watching the
01:40
ewan mcgregor um documentary on apple tv
01:44
plus
01:45
called the long way up where they ride a
01:47
motorbike basically all the way up
01:48
through south america
01:49
through mexico yeah it’s very cool and
01:52
there was this one line that jumped out
01:53
of us and he said well there you go the
01:55
journey is all about the interruptions
01:57
and i’m like that is profound wow about
01:59
the interruptions
02:00
so we both you know looked at each other
02:02
and said okay all right
02:04
let’s just chase the interruptions so
02:06
that’s what it’s about
02:07
is is that a is that a kind of um
02:10
interesting segue into today’s topic
02:12
life is about the interruptions
02:14
life is about the interruptions
02:17
i was actually trying to connect it
02:19
somehow speak
02:21
speaking of interruptions stu today
02:22
we’re going to talk about
02:24
today we’re going to talk about
02:26
effective meetings
02:28
with no interruptions
02:32
actually including my um including my
02:34
random thoughts yep
02:36
well no um sometimes interruptions are
02:39
good
02:40
um and you need to listen to the
02:42
interruptions
02:43
but um we’re talking yeah we’re talking
02:46
today about
02:47
operating rhythm and effective meetings
02:49
and and the big
02:51
idea really for today is
02:55
about how as you begin to onboard into
02:58
waymaker
03:00
one of the most important things you’ll
03:01
do
03:03
is um not just taking the diagnostic and
03:06
setting your first goals
03:07
and starting to get that that habit
03:10
rolling
03:11
but actually building the operating
03:12
rhythm which which is anchored with
03:14
effective meetings with the right
03:16
meetings yeah and
03:18
um the the the the way meetings help an
03:22
operating rhythm
03:23
kind of keep moving um uh is
03:26
is really important and and in fact if
03:29
we get the meetings right
03:31
then we get the operating rhythm right
03:33
and if we get the operating rhythm right
03:35
then we get the goals done and so
03:39
we often think about meetings as
03:43
horrible terrible things and by and
03:46
large
03:47
most of them are so if if you are having
03:51
horrible meetings
03:52
um uh today is just
03:55
for you um we’re going to give you some
03:57
toolkits and skills
03:59
so we’ve nailed this have we have issues
04:02
i’m just going to fess up and say i too
04:04
am a student
04:06
on this journey thank you thank you for
04:09
uh
04:09
for calling out my weaknesses
04:13
um but uh yeah i think um
04:16
actually i think um i’ve got a lot
04:18
better over the years
04:20
because i would happily let any meeting
04:22
just go sideways into a cup of coffee
04:25
and a good chat with mates
04:26
um however that is not
04:29
actually good um leadership and
04:31
management
04:33
and we’ve got to learn the discipline
04:35
and we’ve got to learn the skills and
04:36
we’ve got to build that
04:37
muscle to to run great meetings
04:40
and so it’s something we’ve got to learn
04:43
to do um
04:44
i mean there’s a in
04:48
by the way i should say all the content
04:49
for today’s uh podcast
04:51
is coming from our course on waymaker
04:54
academy called
04:56
how to lead and run effective meetings
04:58
so
05:00
go check it out waymaker.io yeah that’s
05:03
right i’ll go
05:04
i’ll go check it out too afterwards
05:06
because i actually you know what i have
05:07
straight after this podcast
05:08
i have my leadership team meeting and so
05:11
there’s there’s nothing like um leading
05:14
the team
05:15
sitting standing celebrating that’s
05:17
right
05:18
and having your own team go that wasn’t
05:20
in the that wasn’t in the course we’re
05:21
just right
05:22
um
05:26
yeah sorry to cut you off there mate
05:28
we’re going to talk about the four most
05:30
effective meetings
05:32
uh to conquer in any organization um and
05:35
ultimately we’ll talk about how waymaker
05:36
can help you know leaders run
05:39
more effective meetings but yeah yeah
05:41
you can find that content on the wake
05:42
waymaker academy but um uh
05:46
stu i mean there’s a book by patrick
05:48
lencioni called death by meeting right
05:50
um which i think is is part of every
05:54
organizational leaders um you know
05:56
toolkit of books to
05:57
to read so you know the extreme is that
06:00
you ditch them all
06:01
right correct or that they’re all
06:03
they’re all hallway conversations and
06:04
all the rest of it and that’s equally
06:06
not effective and
06:07
um you know people are too busy and all
06:09
that sort of stuff
06:10
but um let’s let’s
06:13
let’s dive into these four ways
06:16
and um how we can actually be more
06:20
you know strategic in our approach to
06:22
meetings
06:23
yeah um uh so
06:26
we we would and also just taking a step
06:29
back before we dive in
06:30
um yeah one of the questions um
06:33
certainly i’ve got asked as
06:35
um you know we’ve been implementing
06:37
waymaker into teams as well how many
06:39
meetings
06:39
how how many should we do and um and you
06:42
touched on it you know the extreme is
06:43
zero
06:44
um the at one end the other extreme is
06:47
you
06:48
feel like you’re living your life in
06:49
meetings and not doing anything
06:53
and i think if we step back and go
06:54
what’s what’s the point of a meeting
06:57
um that actually helps bring some
07:00
context and clarity
07:02
to why you might be meeting and
07:07
i actually love bill gates’s definition
07:10
because you you don’t hold a meeting to
07:14
decide the question you hold a meeting
07:18
to
07:18
determine the answer and and i think a
07:21
lot of meetings
07:23
end up being talkfest where it’s
07:27
let’s come together to decide the
07:28
question no no come together to
07:31
let iron sharpen iron resolving and
07:35
answering the question together
07:38
and good pre-work helps set up a good
07:41
meeting
07:41
um jeff bezos uh
07:45
who does have a few good successful runs
07:47
on his on his board
07:48
he does yeah um founder of amazon
07:52
um you know he’s learned the art of the
07:54
meeting and and
07:56
when you read about his style and
07:58
approach and i think we might have
07:59
referenced this before on the podcast
08:01
um uh he makes people write
08:04
um a short memo um to bring background
08:08
information
08:08
and recommendations to a meeting and any
08:11
and he sets up the first
08:13
15 to 30 minutes of of every meeting for
08:15
people to read it
08:16
and absorb it and think about it so that
08:18
when they actually host the meeting
08:20
people are interacting thoughtfully
08:24
and strategically and bringing
08:27
the best to the table so is he making
08:30
the assumption that
08:31
um people are not going to do the
08:33
pre-work
08:34
prior to the meeting so let’s just set
08:35
up the first chunk of the meeting to
08:37
actually do that
08:38
exactly yeah he is i mean how many
08:40
meetings um
08:41
do we turn up to going oh what’s the
08:44
agenda again
08:45
um and you know the first five minutes
08:48
are spent
08:49
um figuring out what’s going to happen
08:51
sounds a bit like our podcast
08:53
that’s not true that’s not true at all
08:58
and then suddenly you’re in in and
08:59
wasting time whereas
09:01
if that one person who’s called people
09:03
together has thoughtfully prepared
09:04
something with a clear set of
09:06
recommendations that people can agree
09:08
with or disagree with
09:10
but read the substantiating reasons
09:12
behind then
09:13
then yeah you can have a great meeting
09:14
and and so his thinking is well
09:16
everybody’s busy
09:17
um nobody’s gonna most people aren’t
09:19
gonna take the time or have the time to
09:21
step back beforehand
09:22
so let’s actually start with that now
09:24
that’s one way to do it that’s great
09:25
that’s not in our training course
09:27
uh but go google jeff bezos and his
09:29
meetings that might be
09:31
what your organization needs it’s it’s
09:33
worked for him
09:36
what what we are establishing here
09:39
is a platform and a set of frameworks
09:42
that
09:42
as you begin to set your operating
09:44
rhythm and as you begin to say okay
09:47
what are we going to do as we come
09:48
together and meet
09:50
that that what is the purpose and the
09:52
purpose
09:53
is to hit your goals i mean that’s the
09:55
whole point of waymaker how do we get to
09:57
point a from
09:58
from point a to point b how do we help
09:59
people hit their goals
10:03
more easily more effectively and so
10:06
when we come in for a meeting we
10:08
shouldn’t come in with any other
10:10
expectation other than we’re here today
10:12
to help people hit their goals
10:14
more effectively so we think
10:17
we waymaker in our toolkit um we’ve
10:20
stepped back and said there’s
10:21
there’s probably four fundamental
10:24
meetings that matter
10:25
for every organization
10:29
at the extreme if you’re doing zero well
10:30
that that that’s ideal
10:32
in fact i think it was peter drucker
10:33
that said and this is in our course
10:36
um that the ideal number of meetings for
10:38
an organization is zero
10:40
uh and and an over abundance of meetings
10:44
is a symptom of an unhealthy
10:45
organization
10:47
um yeah i don’t completely disagree with
10:49
him there but i do see value in coming
10:51
together
10:52
and um and coming together
10:55
to achieve goals more effectively
10:58
changes the structure of the meeting
11:00
and perhaps he was referring to bad
11:02
meetings
11:03
if if you’re the higher up you are in
11:06
the organization though obviously the
11:07
more meetings you have to be a part of
11:08
true or false
11:10
false okay
11:14
why yeah why
11:16
[Laughter]
11:18
because it was a rhetorical way in the
11:20
year yeah yeah uh
11:22
well in fact um a
11:25
really beautiful guy that just had a
11:27
wonderful turn of phrase that i’m trying
11:28
to remember the exact turn of phrase
11:29
because turn a phrase was this
11:31
um uh that i used to know fact i think
11:34
we both used to know
11:35
always used to say this phrase why why
11:38
have a dog and
11:39
and what’s the phrase
11:55
i’m not going to this is brilliant let’s
11:57
explore this
11:58
all right okay well if you could figure
12:00
out the phrase it’s what all right
12:02
you keep talking you keep talking
12:05
tale is the point of the phrase and um
12:08
there is a much better turn to that
12:09
phrase the point is
12:10
if you’re a leader manager and you’re
12:12
stuck in meetings
12:14
why the heck do you have subordinates um
12:16
you know
12:17
how have you delegated equipped and
12:20
empowered them to get on with their own
12:22
job
12:22
and do they have such a lack of clarity
12:24
of objective
12:26
that they can’t go away and organize
12:28
themselves to get the job done but you
12:30
have to
12:30
stay on top of them all the way through
12:33
so
12:33
the higher up you are in the
12:35
organization the less meetings you
12:37
should be in
12:38
and the more effort you should be
12:39
putting in to equipping and empowering
12:41
others and that’s
12:43
that actually is the thing that trips
12:45
most people up and so
12:47
yeah if people can’t make decisions then
12:50
you’re going to end up in more meetings
12:52
and if people can’t make decisions
12:54
then there’s no accountability there’s
12:57
no empowerment
12:58
and there’s no ownership and so it’s
13:01
time to step back
13:02
so um we think there’s four meetings to
13:05
get right
13:06
those four meetings um number one the
13:08
leadership team meeting
13:10
uh which you could use for executive
13:12
leaders or team leaders
13:13
uh the second um and by the way and i’ll
13:16
come and describe each one the second is
13:18
the one-on-one session um
13:20
which is for for managers and their team
13:21
members um the one-on-one that that’s
13:25
the third is the daily stand-up which is
13:27
the the daily team or the huddle that
13:29
could be weekly or daily depending on
13:31
how you might run your team
13:33
and then fourthly uh the sales meeting
13:36
or the
13:37
or the thing that gets in the revenue um
13:40
and and so if we think about those four
13:42
meetings
13:43
leadership team meeting is all about um
13:46
executives team leaders management
13:48
meeting to make sure that goals get hit
13:51
now that’s not making sure by by
13:55
micromanaging it’s making sure by
13:56
removing roadblocks
13:58
so we’re going to talk about we’re going
13:59
to go deep in detail
14:02
the second one the one-on-one is for for
14:04
managers or leaders in their
14:06
and their team members and that’s about
14:08
growing people
14:09
so the first one’s about growing the
14:11
organization the second one is about
14:13
growing people
14:14
the third one the daily stand-up is
14:17
about growing
14:18
teams and the fourth one sales meeting
14:21
uh is about growing revenue so
14:24
um growing your new station yeah
14:27
leadership team meeting is all about
14:29
growing the organization so moving it
14:31
forward
14:31
towards it towards its vision the
14:34
one-on-one is all about growing
14:35
people that’s the objective
14:38
the third the daily stand-up is about
14:40
growing the team
14:42
and the team’s output as a unit of the
14:44
organization
14:46
and the and the fourth is all about um
14:49
how we do sales together how do we grow
14:51
revenue
14:52
um to make uh our organization
14:55
sustainable
14:56
so grow the organisation grow the
14:59
individual grow the team
15:01
grow the revenue they’re picking up on
15:03
the ex
15:04
cx business model vision strategy so
15:08
those four meetings in whichever
15:12
way slice and dice you use them in your
15:14
organization
15:15
kind of the four fundamentals um and if
15:18
you’ve got to have a set of meetings
15:20
um have a mix of these four
15:23
yeah that’s cool and so you can you can
15:25
deep dive into each of those in the
15:27
waymaker academy uh online but for the
15:29
purposes of this
15:31
uh episode we’re just gonna focus on the
15:34
first one
15:34
the leadership meeting that’s right
15:36
that’s right and we should say
15:38
um that the
15:41
the content in waymaker academy um
15:43
search for effective meetings
15:45
is free to all users whether you’re a
15:47
free or a paid user
15:48
this content is free to all users and
15:51
what’s really cool to hear is how people
15:53
are using this content
15:55
i’m hearing how people are taking these
15:58
as foundation
15:59
frameworks and going hey that that
16:02
mostly works for us we’re going to
16:03
change this this and this
16:04
and we’re going to embed this structure
16:07
great fantastic
16:09
um you know we’re we’re serving up a
16:11
framework and a platform
16:13
for you to adapt and mold into what
16:16
suits you
16:17
and hopefully then as new people coming
16:20
to your organization it’s quick to
16:21
onboard
16:22
them use our content frame that up
16:25
and away you go so that’s awesome that’s
16:28
great so
16:29
what’s up yeah okay what’s the purpose
16:31
of a leadership team
16:32
meeting then we’ve talked about you know
16:35
at a higher level but
16:36
let’s start to deep dive what’s the
16:38
purpose okay well the
16:40
sole purpose for a leadership team
16:42
meeting um and this could be a
16:44
functional team meeting so this
16:45
depending on how big your organization
16:47
is but it’s its leaders coming together
16:49
the sole purpose is to build alignment
16:53
create focus or retain focus from that
16:56
alignment around the goals
16:57
and remove roadblocks towards those
17:00
goals
17:02
it’s not to talk about what you have
17:04
done
17:05
or what you might do uh it’s
17:08
it’s to come together to make sure that
17:11
we’re moving towards our goals
17:14
and to remove any roadblocks that are
17:17
between us
17:18
and those goals getting done does that
17:20
make sense
17:21
yeah as a lower level uh employee
17:24
over the years uh i would think that the
17:27
removing roadblocks would be
17:29
the most important as as someone who’s
17:32
say reporting to a senior leader like to
17:35
actually have a senior leader come and
17:36
say okay here’s the roadblocks that
17:38
we’ve removed
17:38
um or that to me would almost be the
17:41
most important
17:42
one of those absolutely um it is
17:46
uh why do we bring the alignment and the
17:48
focus so that we can remove the
17:49
roadblocks
17:50
so um and that’s why
17:53
um in the waiting of time um
17:57
you know and some people might say well
17:58
how long should should the meeting last
18:00
well i don’t know somewhere between
18:03
between zero roadblocks
18:07
through to you know two or three big
18:10
roadblocks so that could be somewhere
18:12
when we look at the agenda in a minute
18:13
somewhere between
18:14
45 minutes and two hours you know 60 to
18:18
90 minutes is not a bad
18:20
structure it’s not half a day it’s not
18:23
15 minutes remember this is a leadership
18:25
team meeting
18:26
this is a group of leaders coming
18:27
together to work together
18:29
and so if there’s three four five six
18:31
seven leaders around that table
18:33
sometimes more um just do the do the
18:35
head count
18:36
um you can very quickly go wow
18:40
um this this weekly leadership
18:43
team meeting if we did a opportunity
18:45
cost on head cost hours
18:47
could be costing us each year anywhere
18:49
from 80 to 160 thousand dollars
18:52
and i’m just talking about a normal
18:54
standard you know
18:56
small to medium enterprise with 15 to 25
18:59
people
19:01
that’s an enormous amount of money that
19:03
should get
19:04
a 10x return which means we ought to be
19:08
solving
19:08
multi-million dollar issues when those
19:11
five six seven people come together
19:12
does that make sense it’s not it’s not a
19:14
place for ceo
19:16
information share like this is not the
19:18
place for that
19:19
um no although there is a role
19:23
for some of that um right and so if
19:26
if we quickly look at look at a base
19:28
agenda um
19:29
okay uh um base agenda that you’ll read
19:34
in in waymaker academy on effective
19:37
meetings
19:38
is come together and start off with
19:40
talking about your wins
19:43
secondly talk about the strategic
19:46
business health
19:47
if it’s a leadership team meeting of a
19:49
functional division or a team
19:52
further down the line you may skip that
19:54
and just go to goal health
19:55
so item one wins item two business
19:58
health item three
19:59
um okr health item four roadblocks
20:03
and if and if this were a 90 minute
20:04
meeting we’d break up the time to be
20:07
five to ten minutes on wins yeah five to
20:10
ten minutes on business health
20:12
five to ten minutes on goal health which
20:14
is
20:15
individual goals sitting underneath the
20:16
business health and
20:19
circa 50 to 60 minutes on roadblocks
20:23
does that make sense yeah but would you
20:26
besides wins would you emphasize wins
20:29
more in other
20:30
in other meetings so you like your
20:32
one-on-ones or your um
20:35
you know team meetings and that sort of
20:36
stuff like would you would you change
20:38
the
20:38
ratio uh well um jump into the academy
20:42
and
20:42
look at those one-on-ones because um the
20:45
one-on-ones are more
20:47
designed around a coaching model
20:51
which is around awareness of
20:54
progress towards desired goals and
20:57
bringing that awareness out and that’s
20:59
that’s about wins and losses at the
21:01
individual level
21:02
strengths and weaknesses but wins
21:06
wins do something to a team there’s
21:09
actually
21:09
a lot of people coming into a meeting
21:11
and and unless you’re that one percent
21:13
of the world that’s just naturally
21:15
chirpy happy and
21:16
i don’t know you don’t have blood in
21:17
your veins but you’ve got coffee
21:20
most people come in with a negative
21:22
disposition
21:24
uh towards this interruption to their
21:26
day yeah
21:27
and yeah and and what the winds do
21:30
is they start to reframe your mindset
21:33
they start to
21:34
go oh hey jim from sales they had a big
21:38
win last week
21:39
um i mean product design i actually
21:41
didn’t know that how cool is that
21:43
um
21:46
and it’s about um it’s about a group of
21:50
people
21:51
sitting around a table acknowledging the
21:53
progress that’s being achieved
21:55
regardless of what the health of the
21:58
organization
21:59
is saying and yeah and
22:03
and what that does in any circumstance
22:06
it reaffirms that as a team we know how
22:08
to win together
22:10
because teams that don’t know how to win
22:12
together
22:13
will try and win on their own which will
22:16
lead to
22:16
dysfunction and so the very first thing
22:20
we’re doing
22:21
is reaffirming how we win together
22:24
and and that’s not positive mindset
22:27
bs that that’s just hey we we know how
22:30
to make the plays
22:32
that’s also part of alignment right it’s
22:34
also going okay cool
22:36
everyone’s kicking goals exactly
22:40
or gee whiz um uh poor stew you know
22:43
he’s
22:44
he’s he’s having some wins but gee he is
22:47
struggling
22:47
let’s get around him what’s going on um
22:50
how do we help him have that next win
22:53
because
22:54
i mean you and i both know and every
22:56
listener knows
22:57
you put a win behind somebody
23:00
and their next week is just
23:04
better it’s just better and
23:07
it’s like the wind is the wind beneath
23:09
your wings
23:12
[Laughter]
23:15
barbara what’s up uh not barbra
23:18
streisand
23:18
we’ll go with it thank you thank you
23:21
thank you 1980s pop guru
23:27
you know when you do that you just
23:28
change your mindset and
23:31
we don’t want to be ignorant
23:35
of the problems and the negativity in
23:37
fact um
23:38
two-thirds of the meeting is being spent
23:40
on problems
23:42
um but we don’t want to have those
23:45
problems
23:46
overarch the context and what’s going
23:50
on so emphasizing i know we’re
23:53
overemphasizing wins here but there’s
23:54
that book by um chip and dan heath
23:56
uh called the power of moments which
23:59
is kind of i was prompted i was reminded
24:02
of just then
24:03
um and how important it is to like to to
24:06
take time out to celebrate those things
24:08
yeah we should that is a good setup we
24:11
should do a bit more on some
24:12
chip and dan heath’s work because
24:14
they’ve got some great books um
24:16
yeah okay well we could just so go down
24:18
a rabbit warren right now but we won’t
24:20
all right
24:20
let’s let’s emphasize roblox because
24:22
that that is that is where
24:24
we want the majority of time to be spent
24:26
in these leadership
24:27
meetings correct yeah so what are we
24:29
doing we’re coming in
24:30
um share the wins go around the table
24:32
how did you win
24:33
some people struggled to to bring those
24:35
wins alive i didn’t have a win
24:37
but actually when you stop and and kind
24:39
of draw it out of them they
24:40
they’re there and i can attest
24:44
in in all different circumstances how
24:47
powerful that is
24:48
then we jump into business health so
24:51
we talk about needle shifters in
24:52
waymaker and we have a needle shifter
24:54
dashboard
24:57
when you go to that annual or quarterly
25:00
needle shifter dashboard
25:02
you can see the goals that matter most
25:04
that’s what we’re talking about in
25:05
business health
25:07
so it’s a quick survey of those and and
25:09
it’s a survey to go where are we at
25:11
it’s a reminder um if there’s a problem
25:15
in those
25:16
then then we do we surface that as a
25:18
roadblock and go yeah we’ve got a
25:19
problem in
25:20
ops or sales or tech or systems or
25:24
and it goes to the roadblock list we
25:26
actually don’t talk about it right there
25:28
and then
25:28
we just raise it um
25:32
and then we jump into okr health which
25:35
is the same thing but at an individual
25:37
level so instead of looking at the
25:39
business as a whole which
25:40
those goals will be owned by individuals
25:42
um we’re now looking at individuals and
25:45
we’re going hey
25:46
craig any roadblocks how are you
25:49
traveling
25:50
and you are free to answer no
25:54
all on track this is what’s happening
25:56
this is where we’re going
25:57
and this is where waymaker comes to the
26:00
surface
26:00
if you’re using the explore dashboard um
26:04
which allows you to filter and
26:08
look at the the goal data by user role
26:12
team state
26:16
in like two clicks i can see craig’s
26:19
goals
26:20
confidence progress i can quickly see if
26:24
there’s any issues
26:26
i know if you’re bsing me which does
26:28
happen
26:29
in these meetings let’s be honest
26:33
and if you’re saying no life’s perfect
26:35
happy days everything’s going to be fine
26:37
but your confidence is at 10 and your
26:38
progress is at 15.
26:40
well you know everybody’s entitled to go
26:43
hey craig
26:44
life’s happy why is it you know two
26:46
weeks till the end of quarter and your
26:48
confidence is at 10
26:50
now hopefully before two weeks the end
26:51
of quarter would have covered this issue
26:53
but you get what i’m saying um uh the
26:56
data is there
26:57
to correlate a line um and
27:00
and in fact you you can go no um
27:04
updated my data um confidence is this
27:08
progress is that smooth sailing um
27:12
let’s move on boom ten seconds um
27:15
yeah we don’t need to spend time talking
27:18
about what craig did last week or last
27:20
month and we don’t need to spend time
27:22
talking about what craig might do this
27:23
week or next week and what promises
27:25
craig wants to make
27:28
because that’s a waste of time we
27:30
actually need to go hey craig you know
27:32
your goals yeah i know my girls cool
27:34
you’re on track you’re on track great
27:35
fantastic
27:36
any roadblocks do you do you need
27:38
anything no
27:40
great move on make sense can you can you
27:43
give me an example
27:44
uh of just something like every day that
27:47
you would face that would be a classic
27:49
roadblock that only a leadership
27:51
executive would be able to remove
27:54
okay um i’ll give you two or three
27:56
different examples
27:59
i had one recently um where
28:02
uh lisa in our team uh said i have a
28:05
roadblock
28:06
um and she was working on a on an ex
28:09
strategy which we’ll
28:10
we’ll talk about our ex toolkit at some
28:12
point on this podcast
28:14
and i said what’s your roadblock and she
28:16
said i need
28:18
two hours with you to sit down and go
28:21
through
28:22
the talent strategy and how we’re hiring
28:24
and some of the different skills
28:26
um because until i get that from you i
28:28
can’t move forward
28:30
i was like ah okay i’m the roadblock
28:33
right now i actually need to give you
28:35
some of my time and input onto that
28:37
great that was an easy one scheduled
28:39
some time sat down
28:41
met at the coffee shop for an hour or
28:43
two and talked it through remove
28:45
remove the roadblocks that’s a classic
28:47
one
28:49
another one is and i’ll do with the easy
28:52
ones budgets
28:55
head of sales and marketing goes
28:58
actually you know what
29:01
we’re growing at this rate i’ve only got
29:03
approval for this budget
29:05
i don’t think i’ll achieve my goal
29:07
unless i get x more
29:09
okay that’s a roadblock that’s a genuine
29:11
roadblock
29:12
they don’t have authority to spend more
29:14
money but but they’re saying if i don’t
29:16
spend more money
29:17
i’m not going to hit the goal um okay
29:20
who can sign off on that um that’s where
29:23
the roadblock sits that’s another
29:25
classic
29:26
now the more complex ones and they’re
29:28
easy ones that you know
29:30
what we’re doing as we’re moving through
29:31
this agenda wins business health okay
29:33
our health
29:35
is we’re we’re surfacing those
29:37
roadblocks and we’re triaging them
29:39
um we’re using a classic little triage
29:42
system
29:45
and triage often works in the way of
29:48
um and triage comes from the field
29:50
hospitals and the battlegrounds
29:52
how severe is the wound you know how how
29:54
bad is this who gets attention first
29:57
first and so a really easy way of
29:59
triaging is going you know
30:01
a is really important one is really
30:04
important and really urgent so an a1
30:06
cool give it a little a1 it could be a
30:08
b1 it could be a c3
30:10
and you know as a team you’re starting
30:12
to get a bit of a language
30:13
um you only need a bit of paper by the
30:15
way you don’t need to have complex
30:16
medium agendas and structures for this
30:18
using waymaker and and five or six
30:21
roadblocks might emerge
30:23
um as we’ve got through winds business
30:27
health okr health
30:28
there might be five or six items there
30:30
with another two or three from last week
30:33
pick the a1s pick the most urgent and
30:36
the most
30:37
important that need to be resolved and
30:39
go great
30:40
now we’re going to spend the next 15 to
30:43
20 minutes
30:45
resolving this because it might be more
30:47
complex
30:48
it might be we’ve got to make a change
30:50
of strategy or we might need to
30:52
um hire or fire or we might need to you
30:56
know
30:56
things that have some gravity and
30:59
importance that deserve
31:00
leaders to talk about objectively and so
31:04
we’re surfacing those we’re then at the
31:06
end of goal health okay health
31:08
setting a quick agenda for the the next
31:10
50 to 60 minutes
31:11
to go let’s talk about item one two and
31:13
three
31:14
items three four and five do we agree we
31:17
can resolve in five minutes at the end
31:19
yes awesome to the end does that make
31:21
sense
31:23
yeah and i think that you know you can
31:25
put them in broader
31:26
terms like we’re talking about sometimes
31:28
it’s about clarity
31:29
um so i just actually just need some
31:32
clarity of vision or direction or
31:34
um or permission right around series
31:37
uh it’s personnel and it’s yes and it’s
31:40
finances
31:41
you know like that’s pretty much it
31:43
isn’t it yeah yeah um
31:45
and so these are times where as a team
31:48
i know as we’ve been going through
31:50
startup we’ve gone
31:52
um let’s attack our vision statements or
31:55
here’s a document i want you to read
31:58
i’ve got a roadblock on partnership
32:00
agreements
32:01
um guys go away and read that come back
32:03
to the table
32:04
um i’m not comfortable with xyz
32:08
um let’s resolve it and so so there’s my
32:11
roadblock
32:12
i want to bring my team in to resolve
32:14
the detail um
32:16
uh remove that roadblock and so they’re
32:19
good agenda items
32:20
um to to actually bring to the table and
32:24
um and i’m not suggesting everything’s
32:26
off the cuff in these meetings there are
32:27
times when
32:28
you might want to plan ahead and go we
32:30
know we’ve got a significant roadblock
32:32
we know our leadership team’s coming up
32:34
next week
32:36
here’s the one pager on this issue it
32:39
could be
32:41
it could be a security issue it could be
32:43
a health issue it could be a
32:45
um a protest issue you know there’s just
32:48
thousands of these things going on
32:50
um we need to resolve how we think about
32:53
this
32:53
um yeah and and use that in the
32:55
roadblock session
32:57
it may also be stew that people aren’t
32:59
buying lava lamps anymore
33:02
that’s right damn
33:05
it goes my side hustle so
33:09
so there’s a there’s a market issue
33:11
there right as well
33:16
i mean these are these are great moments
33:18
to to come to the team meeting and say
33:20
hey we’ve got a blockage in this funnel
33:22
um
33:24
we’ve got a problem with this service or
33:26
product or
33:27
we you know how do i how do i move
33:29
forward trying to resolve this
33:31
um yeah and the the resolution
33:34
in talking through that roadblock may be
33:37
okay let’s
33:38
put aside some time for the next week or
33:40
fortnight
33:41
um to run a process to remove the
33:44
roadblock
33:46
you don’t have to resolve everything in
33:48
that meeting
33:49
but the point is that we’re spending the
33:52
bulk of our time
33:53
identifying and surfacing the barriers
33:56
between us
33:57
and our goal us and our vision and we’re
34:00
putting the best people around that
34:02
to remove them and and that’s that’s not
34:05
weakness that’s strength
34:07
people often come to meetings trying to
34:09
hide what they have or haven’t done
34:11
um they need to surface it um and go
34:14
actually got a roadblock here
34:15
um i thought this i thought wrong
34:18
the the market or this circumstance um
34:22
uh proved me wrong uh i don’t know why
34:25
i’m wrong
34:25
um help and and the quicker we surface
34:29
that as a roadblock the faster we get to
34:31
our goal
34:34
great so just to recap the four most
34:36
important meetings
34:38
the leadership team meeting the
34:40
one-on-one session
34:41
the daily stand-up the sales meeting we
34:44
focused on the leadership team meeting
34:45
uh
34:46
and there’s probably four sub key points
34:48
there
34:49
let’s focus on the wins but you know
34:51
maybe 10 minutes
34:52
business health okay our health and then
34:54
finally let’s spend a big chunk of time
34:56
identifying and removing roadblocks
35:00
correct yeah yeah that’s it yeah that’s
35:03
awesome yeah
35:03
if you wanna uh if you wanna find out
35:06
more about that then you can uh
35:07
jump on effective uh meetings
35:11
on the waymaker academy and that is free
35:14
you don’t have to pay for that one good
35:17
uh and you can um
35:18
you can find out just a little bit more
35:20
information lastly just you
35:22
uh with the changing of uh technology
35:25
and all the rest of it
35:26
do these have to be face-to-face
35:28
meetings um
35:30
are you preferencing one format over
35:32
another
35:33
these days in terms of how you i mean
35:35
we’ve built a platform
35:37
to empower people to work centralized or
35:39
decentralized
35:40
from home hybrid in the office
35:44
at the end of the day um i think we live
35:47
in a world
35:48
due to talent due to health due to
35:51
lots of different reasons where it’s
35:53
going to be rare that everybody is
35:54
always in the same meeting
35:56
same space at once so sure um
36:00
teams hangouts if that’s what’s still
36:02
called
36:03
zoom whatever your poison of choice is
36:05
for a digital meeting
36:07
make it effective make sure everybody
36:08
can get access
36:10
actually let people learn how to use um
36:14
these platforms send them out the couple
36:16
of youtube videos that each of these
36:18
platforms have on how to use them so
36:19
that they’re comfortable
36:20
they can use the chats and the
36:22
whiteboards and the notes sections
36:24
that’s really important ideally
36:28
sure big meetings important meetings
36:30
face to face there’s nothing like
36:32
sitting across the table
36:34
breaking bread talking sharing working
36:37
together
36:38
you can’t beat that um but don’t let
36:41
distance beat you
36:42
use some tech heck that’s that’s what
36:44
it’s there for awesome
36:46
and and what we’re actually also finding
36:48
is that coaches and colton
36:49
consultants are actually taking this
36:51
framework that we’ve just talked about
36:53
um and adapting it in their own
36:55
consultancy businesses right so
36:57
for their clients that’s all right this
36:59
is a template this is a template a
37:01
framework a way of
37:02
approaching you know meeting strategy
37:07
yeah yeah the the point of the meeting
37:09
the leadership meeting
37:10
um and really any meeting is to remove
37:13
roadblocks to either grow the
37:14
organization grow the individual grow
37:16
the team or grow the revenue
37:18
and as long as we keep the that
37:21
as the main idea then you know who
37:24
really cares
37:25
how you structure it the point is to set
37:28
the context
37:29
structure it for your organization and
37:31
your team and
37:33
be consistent in delivery awesome
37:36
hey stu we need to wrap it up uh i’ve
37:38
got a i’ve got a meeting to get to
37:40
you guys very good a very effective one
37:44
um so um it’s it’s great to chat
37:48
um as always and um yeah if you want to
37:52
sign up for when you know if you if
37:54
you’re not already on waymaker waymaker
37:56
dot io
37:57
is the place to go sign up for a free
37:59
trial
38:00
jump on the waymaker academy do this and
38:02
other courses which are free
38:04
for users whether you’re a paid user or
38:06
not and
38:08
and you can find out more about how to
38:10
achieve more
38:12
by doing less
38:21
[Music]
38:23
[Applause]
38:26
[Music]
38:32
you
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Leadership vs management the podcast

welcome to leadership talk
00:04
the official waymaker podcast where we
00:07
explore
00:08
how your organization can achieve more
00:11
by doing less
00:22
welcome to leadership talk the official
00:24
way maker podcast i’m your host craig
00:26
hunman
00:27
with me as always is stuart leo ceo and
00:30
founder of
00:31
wayne maker how are you mate good
00:33
morning craig i’m
00:34
i’m great um uh you know it’s it’s it’s
00:37
uh
00:38
it’s winter time here in australia which
00:41
means
00:43
yeah it’s not rest it’s not really in
00:44
queensland though
00:46
i know but you know we did have a
00:47
thunderstorm just then it’s beautiful
00:49
blue skies now
00:50
hey uh life is pretty good isn’t it at
00:53
20 something degrees in winter
00:55
so you and i have been actually talking
00:57
for probably the last
00:58
hour and i thought we’ll probably
01:00
actually hit record
01:02
[Music]
01:03
yeah capture some of these insights what
01:06
do you think
01:06
yeah absolutely i think that’s um uh
01:10
maybe what our listeners don’t always
01:11
understand is that
01:13
before most podcasts there’s probably
01:14
about 20 30 40 minutes of just hello how
01:17
are you going
01:18
um so uh yeah we do get to the point
01:20
where we go whoops we better record a
01:22
podcast yeah we probably actually
01:23
probably should record but um
01:24
so and we were talking about uh a whole
01:27
bunch of stuff
01:28
um around the idea of leadership and
01:31
we wanted to talk today on this podcast
01:33
about
01:35
liv well leadership 101 but from a
01:37
waymaker perspective
01:39
yeah yeah um and and i think that’s
01:42
because i mean waymaker as a platform
01:44
is designed to help you be
01:47
a better leader and to help you build
01:50
better leaders
01:52
so it’s uh at its heart
01:55
um we know that better leaders build
01:58
better organizations
02:00
and um build self-sustaining
02:02
organizations
02:03
um yeah so that’s that’s really at the
02:05
very core
02:06
and heart of what we’re doing yes
02:09
waymaker is software
02:10
and waymaker is a toolkit of stuff but
02:14
at its essence if we’re not helping
02:17
people
02:18
um become leaders and be better leaders
02:21
then i don’t think we’re doing our job
02:23
and so yeah that’s the big idea for
02:25
today that’s awesome and
02:26
obviously stew that if you’ve got a
02:28
great business idea and you start a
02:30
business or
02:31
obviously you’re a great leader right
02:33
yeah i think
02:36
sure i think the
02:39
um the fear sometimes in talking about
02:43
leadership
02:44
um is most people go i’m not a great
02:46
leader
02:47
i can’t talk about leadership and that’s
02:50
like
02:51
people going well i’m not a great cook i
02:52
can’t talk about cooking
02:54
no everybody loves to cook
02:57
we all lead in different ways in
03:00
different levels in different things
03:02
as we go about our day you know
03:04
leadership um
03:05
it’s a skill it’s a muscle that we use
03:08
um
03:09
i’m not sitting here pretending to be
03:10
the world’s greatest leaders if i lined
03:12
up all my leadership mistakes
03:14
against all my leadership successes i’d
03:16
probably cry and go home
03:19
but i think leadership is one of those
03:22
things that if we
03:23
don’t talk about um we’re not leading
03:27
and and so we need to
03:30
we need to grab the bull by the horns
03:31
and go okay one of the
03:33
ultimate things that powers an
03:36
organization
03:37
is this gift of leadership that um that
03:40
we have
03:41
as people and how do we grow it and
03:43
build it how do we become students of
03:45
leadership
03:46
in order to be better leaders and one of
03:49
the things that i’ve heard said about
03:51
a lot of bosses and ceos over time not
03:54
not specifically the ones that i’ve
03:56
worked in but you know you just hear
03:57
this
03:57
saying that oh they’re a great manager
03:59
but they’re not a great leader
04:01
what’s what’s the difference how yeah
04:04
how do we pull that difference apart
04:06
um so i think i think this is this
04:09
speaks to the essence of a lot of what
04:10
we’re going to talk today so let’s set
04:12
this context
04:16
we come from the viewpoint that
04:21
leadership and management are two very
04:23
different things
04:25
and the problem is
04:29
people execute the skills of leadership
04:33
and management
04:35
and sometimes we confuse
04:39
the skills of leadership in the skills
04:40
of management and i think we should put
04:42
it this way
04:44
a human being leads and manages
04:47
all at the same time and it’s at
04:49
different
04:50
times is flexing the muscle of
04:53
leadership versus flexing the muscle of
04:55
management
04:56
if i could put it that way and so if we
04:58
put a real quick definition
05:00
um to what leadership and management is
05:03
um
05:03
uh and and i think we’ve absorbed this
05:05
from from great leaders before us this
05:07
isn’t our own
05:08
thinking but leadership is simply
05:11
getting somebody from point a to point b
05:13
um so how do we get somebody or a group
05:17
of people
05:18
from point a to point b i love that um
05:21
it’s that thinking is what sits at the
05:24
very heart of our methodology the
05:25
experience curve
05:27
beginning of point to end of point point
05:30
a to point b
05:31
how do we get a group of people from an
05:34
idea
05:35
to mature market leadership and
05:38
that’s that’s that’s the great
05:42
excitement of organizations management
05:46
is actually helping people do the right
05:49
things at the right time in the right
05:50
way
05:51
on the journey from point a to point b
05:55
and that’s two very different things and
05:58
um they require two different different
06:00
skill sets
06:02
to get people from point a to point b
06:06
and i think what often happens is we
06:09
look at individuals and people and we go
06:11
they’re a great leader but not a great
06:12
manager they’re a great manager and not
06:13
a great leader and
06:15
and all good leaders should be good
06:17
managers and all good managers should be
06:19
good leaders
06:20
and uh and that is a sometimes
06:23
controversial statement is that is that
06:26
in some wonderful magical world
06:28
[Laughter]
06:30
yeah he’s this world we prepared earlier
06:36
well no no it’s not some of the best
06:40
leaders i’ve
06:40
worked for with or around have been
06:44
considered the lowest levels of
06:46
management in an organisation
06:48
and so what we can’t confuse
06:52
is oh they’re the ceo or they’re the
06:54
business
06:56
x person therefore they’re the leader
06:58
well no a leader is just somebody who
07:00
gets
07:00
somebody or a group of people from point
07:02
a to point b um
07:04
and and this the skill of management is
07:07
helping them do the right things at the
07:09
right time
07:09
in the right way uh along that journey
07:12
and so
07:13
um we should we should recognize that
07:16
great leadership and great management
07:18
actually is a skill that needs to sit in
07:21
every member of the organization
07:23
um not what is often called the
07:25
leadership team
07:27
or you know that’s just i i really hate
07:30
that term
07:31
um because you you run an organization a
07:34
business
07:35
that is a leadership team um uh
07:38
come up with another term for it uh
07:39
because you create this wall between
07:41
people who think they are leaders and
07:43
who think they’re not leaders if there’s
07:45
somebody in that organization that has a
07:47
responsibility to meet an objective
07:49
then they are leading and managing to
07:52
get to that objective
07:53
and organizations that i’ve just had um
07:57
you know a great opportunity to thrive
07:59
in and you would
08:00
you would probably think back in times
08:02
like this yourself
08:04
is when that culture permeates that
08:06
there isn’t this one group of people who
08:07
are leaders and this other group of
08:09
people who are doers
08:10
but rather leadership is a skill a
08:12
muscle that we learn and do
08:13
and management is a skill a muscle that
08:15
we learn and do
08:17
and when we do that we transform our
08:19
thinking we change our mindset
08:21
and we begin to think differently about
08:24
how we work with people
08:26
and that i think is the very first step
08:30
in thinking about leadership
08:34
this great um philosopher once said
08:36
stuart lee
08:38
sorry for laughing if if you build
08:40
leaders your business happens
08:45
i think um yeah because i think by
08:48
default good leaders
08:50
do recognize good management um
08:53
and i think we should put a definition
08:55
to that um
08:56
or an explanation to that yeah leaders
08:59
lead
09:00
people managers
09:04
are men or people manage systems
09:07
i stumbled across my own things let me
09:09
say that again leaders lead people
09:11
and people manage systems right
09:15
we we do not manage uh people
09:19
and we do not lead systems
09:22
so leaders lead people
09:26
people manage systems
09:29
people never manage people
09:32
and people never lead systems and if we
09:35
should never
09:36
should never should never yeah if we get
09:38
that ass about
09:39
uh yeah then we tend to end up on our
09:42
ass and so yeah
09:44
i think often um if we look back on our
09:48
own
09:49
errors or mistakes in leadership and
09:50
management often it’s where we get those
09:52
two things wrong
09:54
and so the 101 in leadership and
09:57
management
09:58
leadership getting people from a to b
10:00
management helping them do the right
10:02
things on the right way
10:03
leaders lead people people manage
10:06
systems
10:07
but leaders never manage people
10:11
and we leave bad
10:14
leaders when we feel managed and not
10:18
led and so i think um
10:21
i’ve done that to people they’re my
10:23
mistakes in the past and i’ve had that
10:24
done to me
10:25
and and that they’re the mistakes i’ve
10:27
felt in the past and when i’ve done it
10:29
the right way around
10:31
it’s transformational to the
10:32
relationship
10:35
it’s when we are humans first and
10:39
workers second and that’s that’s
10:41
transformational often
10:43
to many organizations to get that
10:45
foundation right
10:46
and and so let me just repeat it again
10:49
um leadership is getting people or
10:52
somebody from point a to point b
10:54
management is making sure they do the
10:55
right things in the right way at the
10:57
right time
10:58
leaders lead people and people manage
11:00
systems but people
11:01
never manage people
11:05
and people should never lead systems uh
11:08
when we get that ass about we end up on
11:10
our ass
11:12
so i think if we establish that as
11:14
foundational thinking then we’ve got
11:16
somewhere to go
11:18
that’s cool so we we’re um
11:22
we’re talking about like maybe a
11:24
different approach to leadership
11:26
through waymaker so the the waymaker
11:30
way the waymaker approach
11:33
approach to leadership and you’ve got
11:35
some
11:36
well we have some some some frameworks
11:39
to think through
11:40
in terms of the waymaker approach to
11:42
leadership yeah and look
11:43
um our job is to give you a platform
11:47
a software platform and a methodology
11:50
what you do with it uh up to you you can
11:53
choose to use this as much or as little
11:55
as you like but we’re here to help you
11:58
hopefully this helps you do the right
12:00
things in the right way and helps you
12:01
lead people towards better goals
12:03
and so we talk about a waymaker mantra
12:07
and waymaker is designed
12:11
under the context of this mantra so
12:14
the waymaker mantra is
12:17
show the way build the system train the
12:20
leader
12:21
hold them accountable and help them win
12:24
it’s it’s a
12:25
five-step mantra
12:29
and it actually intertwines the ideas
12:33
and skills and muscles of leadership and
12:35
management
12:36
through that mantra so i’ll say it again
12:38
um that the waymaker mantra is show the
12:41
way
12:44
let me say that again show the way i’ve
12:46
got to remember my own mentor show the
12:47
way
12:47
um build the system train the leader
12:49
hold them accountable
12:50
help them win and we should unpack that
12:54
a little bit because
12:55
i want to show how the platform has that
12:59
ethos baked into it so it helps you be a
13:02
better leader and helps your
13:03
you build better leaders awesome all
13:06
right well let’s start with show the way
13:07
then
13:08
well easy um easy easy
13:11
the the first um the first way we show
13:14
the way
13:15
is is actually when you turn on waymaker
13:18
you take your first diagnostic
13:21
and you end up with a benchmark we call
13:24
it an x-score
13:25
and it plants you on a curve and we
13:28
talked about getting from point a to
13:29
point b
13:30
point a in waymaker is an idea this
13:33
organization was once an idea
13:35
point b um is
13:39
it’s probably more like point z but it’s
13:42
market leadership it’s the top of the
13:44
curve ready for the next
13:46
point a and so we want to help people
13:49
organizations get from point a to point
13:51
b and so the very first thing we do is
13:53
show the way
13:54
and to show the way you have to know
13:57
where you are
13:58
on the way and so our diagnostic
14:01
reveals a benchmark and that benchmark
14:03
is an x score
14:04
and you’re going to find a score
14:05
somewhere between 20 or 30 percent
14:08
up to 80 90 100 depending on how good
14:12
you are
14:14
if you’re in your early stages of
14:16
maturity
14:17
you’ll be around 30 40 50
14:20
on the experience curve if you’re
14:23
demonstrating maturity
14:25
then you’re going to be much higher but
14:28
we don’t just leave that as an
14:30
organizational level
14:31
maturity curve um if you’ve been
14:35
listening to any of our podcasts and
14:36
it’s great to hear feedback from
14:38
listeners who have actually you’ll know
14:41
that when we talk about
14:42
um the the system of business
14:46
that it’s actually a system of systems
14:48
and that we we break that up into
14:50
vision market strategy business model
14:52
customer experience and employee
14:54
experience and so
14:56
we then allow that way to break down
15:00
into eight curves and
15:03
eight experience curves vision curve
15:05
market curve
15:07
strategy curve business model curve
15:09
sales marketing service and employee
15:11
expert
15:12
employee experience curve and so there
15:14
is circa
15:16
250 ish data points across those curves
15:20
um which when when you take that
15:22
diagnostic
15:24
is giving you a point on each of those
15:27
curves to start from
15:28
so the very first thing we do is we show
15:30
somebody where they are
15:32
not an individual button organization um
15:35
uh so we we think the the first thing
15:38
you need to know in getting from point a
15:39
to point b
15:40
is where you are between point a and
15:41
point b
15:43
that’s kind of helpful and then if you
15:45
then know
15:46
what the next steps are
15:49
which are really the best practice
15:51
activities on the experience curve
15:53
you can actually start to look ahead and
15:54
go oh my most likely next steps in sales
15:57
or marketing or service
15:59
are these three four or five things so
16:02
we’re showing the way
16:03
and we want leaders to pick up that
16:05
mantra and go are we showing the way
16:08
are we showing you what’s next are we
16:10
are we lifting your eyes forward to how
16:12
you
16:12
improve and how your team improves and
16:14
how the organization improves
16:15
in order to get to our vision and our
16:17
goal make sense great
16:18
yep and so when we talk about build the
16:21
system which is the second point
16:23
are we talking about the system that
16:24
we’ve built for organizations or are we
16:26
saying
16:27
now that you know now that you know what
16:28
your next few steps are now you go off
16:30
and build a system
16:31
yeah the point is that um good
16:34
leadership is about replacing yourself
16:36
and so step one is show the way so you
16:39
have a set of skills
16:40
let’s say you’re an organization of one
16:42
and you hire the next person
16:44
they come in day one what are you gonna
16:46
do you’re gonna start to show them
16:48
how to do the tasks and the things that
16:50
you want them to do
16:52
so you’re going to show the way you’re
16:53
going to start to transfer skills
16:56
so in our methodology skills always
16:59
leads systems and right and so we
17:02
have a set of skills and we go great how
17:05
do we
17:06
um compound the effect of those skills
17:08
we build a system
17:09
so we’re going to show the way um we’re
17:13
going to
17:14
build a system we’re then going to train
17:17
a leader and so
17:19
the very first thing we’re going to do
17:21
is recognize that we need to systemize
17:24
some of the skills we have
17:25
and so when we talk about skills and
17:27
systems on the experience curve
17:30
we’re talking about skills as things i
17:32
know how to do
17:33
and systems as processes tools
17:36
or software that help us do something
17:39
more effectively
17:40
so a tool or a process is like a hammer
17:43
um
17:44
great i’ve got a hammer do i have the
17:45
skills to hit the nail on the head
17:48
great a skill a system a hammer is a
17:50
system
17:51
um it’s a tool it’s a process it’s
17:55
and so we we think about systems like
17:57
tools
17:58
and so as i get more advanced i might
18:00
move from hitting a hammer
18:02
to maybe um
18:05
breaking up concrete now i need a
18:07
jackhammer i’ve got a way more powerful
18:09
hammer you get where i’m going i won’t
18:10
go any further
18:11
because my analogy so this knowledge is
18:13
going to break down
18:13
[Laughter]
18:15
so um our mantra you could go to a
18:18
wrecking ball you could go to a wrecking
18:19
ball after that thank you
18:20
yeah yeah right up to dynamite blowing
18:24
up a building yeah
18:26
sorry uh i think you get the point yeah
18:29
the
18:30
the message here is the mantra is um
18:32
show the way
18:33
build the system train the leader so
18:35
where how do we transfer skills out of
18:37
me
18:38
and and i’ve got to lead and i’ve got to
18:41
manage
18:42
so i’m going to show this person where
18:43
they’re going and i’m going to give them
18:45
the skills
18:46
to how to do the right thing in the
18:47
right way at the right time cool
18:49
yeah that’s a system does that make
18:51
sense yep
18:52
and and so when we’re talking about
18:54
training the leader then we’re
18:56
we’re talking about how to uh equip them
18:59
to use the tools
19:01
um most effectively to reach point b
19:04
yes correct yeah and in doing so
19:08
um there’s a there’s a hard skill and a
19:10
soft skill transferred
19:12
the hard skill is i know how to pick up
19:15
the hammer and hit it
19:16
the soft skill is oh i’m beginning to
19:19
understand what you’re doing
19:21
you’re you’re teaching showing helping
19:24
me understand how this hammer works to
19:26
build the house
19:26
i see the house and and so the soft
19:29
skill
19:30
is really where the leadership starts to
19:32
to grow and so
19:33
we should never think about building the
19:37
system and training the leader as
19:38
just pure functional um because if we
19:41
are to
19:43
build the system and train the leader we
19:45
should teach them how to do it for the
19:46
next person
19:48
and um and so when i come in and see
19:52
oh this is how i use this tool i’m being
19:54
trained on how to use it
19:55
i’m only effective if i can do that for
19:58
the next person
19:59
and otherwise we actually haven’t
20:03
we haven’t transferred leadership we
20:04
haven’t taught leadership we haven’t
20:06
showed them
20:07
showed them how to help another person
20:09
get from point a
20:10
to point b we haven’t replicated
20:12
ourselves so leadership is in the
20:14
business of replication and compounding
20:17
okay can we park on train the leader
20:19
just just for a moment seems so
20:21
this episode is all about leadership um
20:25
stu you talk about the five functions of
20:26
a leader um
20:28
and so that might actually be a really
20:29
cool framework to talk about well how
20:31
how might we actually go about training
20:33
leaders or equipping leaders
20:35
to get to point b yeah and look this
20:38
um this isn’t rocket science it’s just a
20:41
little mantra
20:43
to be honest i’ve i’ve learned and
20:45
adapted over the years
20:46
and i try and practice myself and i’ve
20:50
noticed it as
20:52
as i moved into coaching and consulting
20:54
with other senior leaders
20:56
that the biggest problem we have as
20:59
leaders
21:01
is time to step back um time to get out
21:04
of the doing
21:05
and into the thinking and so this little
21:07
five function it’s just
21:09
it sits neatly under the waymaker way
21:12
which is just as a leader you need you
21:14
need to think you need to plan
21:17
you need to inspire you need to equip um
21:20
and you need to empower
21:22
um and it’s really basic
21:26
but that first thing is thinking and you
21:28
could almost take your diary
21:30
and you could look at it and you could
21:32
go how much of my diary
21:34
is actually spent on thinking time
21:38
and most of the leaders that
21:42
that i listened to in those early days
21:44
of of listening around how their
21:46
organization is going is
21:48
is actually just swamped i don’t have
21:50
time to think
21:52
and in fact one of the first rules of
21:55
war
21:55
is to disorient your enemy it’s you know
21:59
go and read the art of war disorienting
22:02
your enemy is one of the first steps
22:05
and most powerful steps to make them
22:08
useless
22:09
and so some of the greatest battles um
22:12
in history have been won from the
22:14
smaller force disorienting the larger
22:16
force
22:17
and so many of our leaders and people
22:20
leading
22:21
get disoriented because they don’t step
22:24
back to re-orient um
22:28
why am i doing what i’m doing what am i
22:30
achieving in doing this
22:32
how are we going what’s working what’s
22:33
not what are the
22:35
divergent voices saying what are the
22:37
who’s who’s arguing against me who’s
22:39
telling me different things to what i
22:41
want to hear what’s that what’s going on
22:43
where’s the market moving what are our
22:45
customers really saying
22:46
um what’s the bs coming up the line that
22:49
i need to ignore and
22:50
what’s the truth coming through that
22:52
i’ve got to grab a hold of and you know
22:54
all those things
22:55
take time and my worst periods of life
22:59
have been periods when i’ve been over
23:01
scheduled over hyped over busy
23:04
and my best and most profitable times of
23:07
life
23:08
have been when there’s been margins at
23:11
the edges
23:12
and because that’s the time
23:15
to think which leads to better planning
23:18
so this think plan inspired
23:20
thinking time thinking actually helps
23:22
you be a better planner
23:24
um bringing the right people around you
23:26
thinking about the right things to do
23:29
um and once you’ve planned you’ve got to
23:32
go and sell that plan
23:35
hopefully you’re able to inspire others
23:37
who have been involved in thinking
23:38
through that planning with where that’s
23:40
going to get us
23:40
it’s the leadership bit and then we’ve
23:43
got to
23:44
um what do i say equipment in power
23:46
which is very much the
23:47
okay who’s on board what what skills and
23:50
systems do you need
23:51
um great you’ve got them now get on with
23:54
it
23:54
um and so that little kind of five
23:57
functions of leadership
23:58
is a little mantra that i try and live
24:00
by and catch myself around and
24:02
help others in our team and and
24:04
community live around too
24:06
so rewind 20 years ago stu we you and i
24:09
were very good at
24:10
time spent thinking with it
24:13
with a red wine we were quite
24:15
disciplined at the thinking stage
24:17
i think planning a few less distractions
24:19
at the time
24:22
yeah we had no kids that was wives
24:23
children yeah businesses
24:25
all that sort of stuff but um it’s
24:28
really great to see that you know
24:29
waymaker has
24:30
actually like gone through the whole
24:32
five and here we are empowering
24:35
people to go and do it themselves well i
24:37
hope so yeah i know it is cool
24:39
but yeah look i think um
24:42
uh i think when you’re young and ideal
24:44
you do have time
24:46
to think and imagine and come up with
24:48
world-changing ideas
24:52
you’ve got to have reality checks on
24:53
those and
24:55
think about how to manage through them
24:56
you know we’re talking about leadership
24:58
and management and
25:01
you know i i often tell the story when i
25:03
lived in
25:04
corporation world which was some of the
25:07
best and worst times of my life but so
25:08
often
25:11
a leader a ceo would come in and
25:15
sell a vision to us and they’d go hey
25:18
we’re going to have an amazing year
25:19
we’re going to sell so much it’s going
25:20
to be amazing
25:21
we’re going to be the market leaders and
25:24
blah blah blah blah
25:26
and um somewhere in there
25:29
uh would drop out that our targets had
25:33
increased
25:34
um but our resources had decreased
25:39
and that the reality of the equipping
25:43
for the vision um uh
25:46
didn’t exist and right and and
25:49
and what was appearing was a gap and you
25:52
know in this podcast and in the
25:53
waymaker world we always talk about you
25:55
know the enemy is the gap
25:58
would be this chasm between somebody
26:01
thinking they’re doing great leadership
26:03
things which is selling big visions
26:06
but then doing really bad management
26:08
things by going
26:10
okay we’re not going to give you the
26:13
skills and the resources to get there
26:15
and when you create that gap when
26:18
when you don’t manage well which is
26:21
equipping and empowering people
26:23
um sorry um providing people with the
26:26
right skills and systems
26:27
um to do the right things at the right
26:30
time
26:30
um then you all you create is just
26:34
uh that’s that’s just that’s just ivory
26:37
tower talk
26:38
um and and so the idea of leadership is
26:42
to
26:42
think plan inspired but to provide the
26:45
right level of skills
26:47
and resources and tools to get the job
26:50
done
26:51
no builder in his or her right mind
26:54
walks up to a building site and says
26:55
we’re going to build a house
26:57
and then says but we don’t have hammers
26:58
drills timber and materials
27:01
and you know just imagine what would go
27:03
on if that happened
27:05
and if you take that and you put that
27:07
into typical organization land and
27:09
corporate world
27:10
how often does that happen and so part
27:12
of waymaker is helping
27:14
um educate people on the ridiculous of
27:17
that moment
27:18
so they can actually reap the benefit of
27:21
great leadership
27:22
and great management um and achieve more
27:25
while doing less
27:27
so we’ve talked about showing the way
27:29
build the system train the leader and
27:30
that actually
27:32
what you’ve just talked about takes us
27:33
to our fourth point we just hold them
27:34
accountable and i just have a question
27:36
on that one before you
27:37
start roofing is um it’s it’s both
27:40
it’s both uh downwards in the
27:44
organizational chart and upwards i would
27:46
imagine like the accountability
27:48
is is both ways that’s right uh
27:52
and and that’s how waymaker um helps
27:54
organizations because
27:58
it’s transparent it’s accountable um
28:02
anybody i’ll talk talk about us as
28:04
waymaker
28:05
anybody inside waymaker can see
28:07
waymaker’s
28:08
long-term strategic goal and all our
28:10
short-term
28:12
goals to get there and
28:16
you can see your name you can see what
28:17
it is you can see the progress towards
28:19
it
28:20
it’s accountable that that’s why we love
28:22
the the foundational methodology of of
28:25
okrs as a goal-setting methodology
28:27
it’s transparent it’s accountable it’s
28:29
clear at any given moment in time
28:32
i can see exactly where an individual is
28:35
at and that individual can see exactly
28:37
where i’m at if we’re all climbing the
28:39
mountain getting from point a to point b
28:42
then we all need to know where each
28:43
other’s at that’s kind of the first rule
28:46
of
28:46
outdoor air isn’t it um if you can’t see
28:50
your team
28:50
stop walking um so if you can’t see your
28:54
team and what they’re doing
28:56
stop get on the same page and get going
29:00
were you in boy scouts just out of
29:02
curiosity i i
29:04
did what our school’s equivalent was it
29:06
was called outdoor education and i i
29:08
liked it
29:08
i took it all the way through to year 12
29:10
before uh before uni
29:12
and then i spent a year in england
29:14
actually being a boy scout
29:17
kind of throwing a seat i didn’t
29:18
thirteen years around yeah it was lots
29:20
of fun
29:22
backwards back when i looked like yeah
29:24
yeah yeah that’s it
29:26
didn’t we all didn’t we all uh show the
29:29
way
29:29
build the system train the leader hold
29:31
them accountable and then lastly
29:33
help them win um
29:37
you only win if the people around you
29:40
win
29:40
that’s where this is getting to you know
29:42
waymaker is
29:44
set up to quickly diagnose gaps
29:47
in skills and systems across the system
29:50
of business
29:51
to set a roadmap of where we need to get
29:53
to and then to
29:55
make clear all the goals that need to
29:57
happen
29:58
and and that’s that means that if i have
30:02
a goal
30:03
and there’s three people around me with
30:06
goals
30:07
and let’s say i’m leading them as a team
30:10
then
30:10
i need to make sure that they’ve got the
30:13
right goals
30:14
and that those goals actually lead
30:16
towards my goals being achieved
30:18
[Music]
30:19
that’s kind of common sense if we’re all
30:22
moving together
30:23
doing different things but in the same
30:25
direction then we achieve more
30:27
if we’re all doing different things
30:29
moving in different directions
30:31
then we’re all doing more and achieving
30:33
less and we need to
30:35
do less and achieve more we need we need
30:37
to make sure we’re all working
30:39
in the same direction um and working
30:41
well so
30:42
the the whole point of helping them win
30:45
um
30:46
is baked into waymaker this philosophy
30:48
of
30:49
people who have goals around you you
30:51
actually need to help them win with that
30:53
goal
30:53
um so we we talk about roadblocks in
30:56
fact
30:57
question one in the seventh question is
30:58
what is our vision um
31:00
is it driven by our purpose and what
31:02
roadblocks exist
31:04
um to to stop us getting there and and
31:07
um part of our basic fundamentals in the
31:10
system
31:11
of waymaker the platform is to surface
31:13
roadblocks
31:15
is this goal still progressing well
31:19
does it have a roadblock if it has a
31:20
roadblock then bring that to the team
31:23
um if you if you are blocked then bring
31:26
that to the team
31:27
and let the team help you unblock that
31:29
it and this is the shift in kind of 20th
31:32
century
31:34
mindsets into 21st century adaptive
31:36
mindsets
31:37
it used to be a sin to go i don’t know
31:40
or
31:40
i’m not achieving and so you’d kind of
31:43
shut up
31:44
and try and hope nobody noticed um
31:48
it’s not a sin to stick your hand up and
31:50
go i’ve got a roadblock
31:52
what we thought four weeks ago we could
31:54
achieve something’s changed
31:56
i can’t fix it but i think if we come
31:59
together and the two or three people
32:00
around
32:01
we can all fix it together um great
32:04
let’s fix it
32:05
uh and remove the roadblock and so you
32:07
know leader’s job
32:10
in equipping and powering is to remove
32:11
roadblocks if you get the roadblocks out
32:13
of the way
32:14
of your team then they can get their job
32:15
done and if
32:17
if you’re not actively removing
32:18
roadblocks then your team isn’t telling
32:20
you about the roadblocks they’re having
32:22
which they’re guaranteed to be having
32:26
then you know the communication’s down
32:28
the focus is down
32:29
it’s you’re just going to get to the end
32:31
of the quarter going why didn’t we get
32:32
there
32:33
oh because this this this and this and
32:35
suddenly the whole thing descends into
32:36
disaster
32:37
um so rapid
32:40
surfacing of roadblocks under the
32:43
context of help each other win
32:46
because there’s only one way to play the
32:48
game and that is
32:49
to win and in order to win you’ve got to
32:53
win
32:53
together one person doesn’t win a team
32:55
wins um
32:57
uh i’m i’m getting on my high horse now
32:59
but i’ll slow down
33:00
yeah yeah no that’s
33:03
that’s awesome and i mean the whole the
33:05
whole point of the waymaker platform is
33:07
to help business owners be better
33:09
leaders to identify these things to step
33:11
through these
33:11
these five uh points that we’ve just
33:13
talked about show the way build the
33:15
system train the leader hold them
33:16
accountable
33:17
help them win stu there is a course on
33:20
the waymaker academy
33:21
called leadership and management do you
33:23
want to just speak into that briefly
33:25
before we finish today yeah i mean
33:29
our vision is to um
33:32
help leaders build better organizations
33:36
which means helping them build leaders
33:38
and so
33:39
uh waymaker academy is
33:42
we call it bite-sized brilliance to help
33:44
you along your way and
33:45
and every user on waymaker has
33:48
free access into wi-maker academy
33:51
there’s only one
33:52
current paid course and and that’s to
33:54
get your advisor certification if you’re
33:56
coaching and consulting on the platform
33:58
um everything else is is free and we
34:01
intend to keep it that way we’re growing
34:03
that every month dropping new content in
34:06
so jump in search leadership and
34:07
management there’s foundational
34:09
leadership management 101 what we’ve
34:11
been talking about
34:12
if you’re a leader or a manager share it
34:14
with your team um
34:16
get them to jump through it you know
34:18
it’s it’s super simple stuff and
34:20
um these are the things that uh someone
34:22
jokingly said to me you can do in the
34:24
coffee shop
34:25
on the bus on the way home or sitting on
34:27
the toilet um
34:29
it’s it’s a it’s a short course that’ll
34:31
take you no no more than
34:33
five to 15 minutes to get through
34:37
and that will help you instill
34:40
um the inspiration of where you’re going
34:42
and also equip and empower them to think
34:44
about leadership in a new and better way
34:48
that’s awesome always as always stu it’s
34:50
uh it’s great to chat to you about all
34:52
things leadership management
34:54
world-changing uh paradigms etc etc
34:57
um but we would encourage anybody who’s
35:00
listening to jump on waymaker.io sign up
35:02
for a free trial you can access that
35:04
leadership and management course
35:06
you know when you sign up for the free
35:07
trial right so um
35:09
jump on there do the free trial can’t
35:11
see your subscription doesn’t matter
35:13
it doesn’t matter you know what um do we
35:16
care of course we care
35:17
but if that’s helped you then fine do
35:20
that
35:20
do that and if you can’t afford your
35:22
subscription just reach out to us and
35:24
talk to us we’ll help you anyway
35:25
oh look at that all right well stu um as
35:28
always it’s great to chat to you
35:30
i love talking about how to achieve more
35:31
by doing less and we’re going to do that
35:33
again in our next episode
35:47
[Music]
35:52
you

 

 

 

This podcast draws on the content from our Waymaker Academy course and playbook on “Running effective meetings“.

How do other business leaders run their meetings?

Jeff Bezos has a diligent and unique approach to internal meetings.

The Amazon founder requires the leader to write a good memo with clarity of recommendations and supporting documentation.

At the start of the meeting, participants are given 30 minutes to read and think about the content – in silence. Then discussion can be explored and decisions made.

Bill Gates famously said, “You have a meeting to make a decision, not decide on the question”.

Peter Drucker brutally observed the ideal number of meetings in an organisation is zero and an overabundance of meetings is a symptom of a sick organisation.

How many meetings do you turn up to in a week? Too many?

Ask yourself and your colleagues which ones add value, for whom and why.

The four fundamental meetings to master

In our podcast and related playbook we explain the four meetings to master and why.

Here’s a summary of the four, who they are for and the benefit they bring.

The four effective meetings

Run an effective leadership team meeting

In the podcast we explore the Leadership team meeting and unpack the basic structure.

Too many meetings talk about what has happened or what you’re going to do.

This creates a problem.

The real benefit of a group of leaders meeting is to isolate roadblocks to goals and spend time solving problems together removing roadblocks.

With that in mind, we’ve set up the leadership team framework to leverage the data insights of Waymaker.io with a simple leadership team agenda.

You can use this as is or choose to modify for your organisation.

A great leadership team meeting does four things:

  1. Shares the wins and positive progress from around the business
  2. Stays on top of business health
  3. Creates accountability for individual goals
  4. Removes roadblocks for individuals to reach those goals.

Item 4 is actually the most important part of the meeting and most time should be spent on that.

Now let’s deep dive into what a simple and effective leadership team meeting can look like.

The Leadership team meeting

Run effective meetings

Purpose

The purpose of this meeting is for a leadership team or a functional team to build alignment, focus and remove roadblocks.

Time

It should be around 90 minutes. At least one hour and no more than two.

How

This meeting would ideally be face to face but this will not be possible all the time, so use MS Teams, Zoom or Google Hangouts.

Set a recurring meeting invite and include a link to the agenda or notebook containing the agenda and notes. This will track discussed actions.

Content

If the team have developed their quarterly OKRs from the diagnostic, this meeting is not about ‘what to do’ or ‘how to do it’ but rather, ‘how to remove what’s in the way of getting things done’.

If there are no roadblocks, share the good news and get on with your day.

Do not talk about work that is progressing well and has a high confidence score of achieving the objective. Spend most of your time on the roadblocks and how to remove them.

That’s why you’re all there.

There is nothing better than a group of smart people working together to remove the roadblocks for of an individual.

The agenda template

Get this meeting framework and three more in our Waymaker Academy course, Effective Meetings, free to all users of Waymaker. Sign up here for a free trial of Waymaker.

Use Waymaker Dashboards for business and team goal health

As each team member has their own goals being tracked in Waymaker, you can use the Dashboard to explore OKRs (goals) by role, team, user, function and status.

In one click you can be viewing a slice of the organisation, the progress to goal and the confidence of delivery.

Run effective meetings using Waymaker dashboards

Use Waymaker Tasks to track and deliver actions from meetings

As each team member manages their goals (OKRs) and tasks in Waymaker, it’s easy to create, edit, complete and collaborate on goals.

Either create a task direct from your home page, OKR detail page or in the Task module.

Run effective meetings using Waymaker Tasks

Get the Leadership team meeting and 3 more meeting frameworks in Waymaker Academy Effective Meetings.

Use Waymaker to run effective meetings

Waymaker enables strategic alignment on teams of 2 to 2,000+.

Waymaker is the intelligent business strategy platform that helps you build the organisation of the future, today.

Find your growth gaps, build your roadmaps, align your team with OKRs and see exactly what is needed to win your quarter.

Sign up for a free 30 day trial of Waymaker.io

By <a href="https://waymaker.io/author/stuart-leo/" target="_self">Stuart Leo</a>

By Stuart Leo

Published on July 15, 2021

Stuart is the CEO & Founder of Waymaker. Stuart is a passionate believer in helping people find their organisation's true north and giving them the tools to get them there. When not exploring new ideas in leadership and management, Stuart is with his family exploring the beautiful regions, islands and coast of Australia.

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