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Waymaker Podcast: Leadership & the Waymaker Way S1:E9

by | Jun 24, 2021

The big idea: If you build leaders, the business happens.

Transcript

Leadership vs management the podcast

welcome to leadership talk
00:04
the official waymaker podcast where we
00:07
explore
00:08
how your organization can achieve more
00:11
by doing less
00:22
welcome to leadership talk the official
00:24
way maker podcast i’m your host craig
00:26
hunman
00:27
with me as always is stuart leo ceo and
00:30
founder of
00:31
wayne maker how are you mate good
00:33
morning craig i’m
00:34
i’m great um uh you know it’s it’s it’s
00:37
uh
00:38
it’s winter time here in australia which
00:41
means
00:43
yeah it’s not rest it’s not really in
00:44
queensland though
00:46
i know but you know we did have a
00:47
thunderstorm just then it’s beautiful
00:49
blue skies now
00:50
hey uh life is pretty good isn’t it at
00:53
20 something degrees in winter
00:55
so you and i have been actually talking
00:57
for probably the last
00:58
hour and i thought we’ll probably
01:00
actually hit record
01:02
[Music]
01:03
yeah capture some of these insights what
01:06
do you think
01:06
yeah absolutely i think that’s um uh
01:10
maybe what our listeners don’t always
01:11
understand is that
01:13
before most podcasts there’s probably
01:14
about 20 30 40 minutes of just hello how
01:17
are you going
01:18
um so uh yeah we do get to the point
01:20
where we go whoops we better record a
01:22
podcast yeah we probably actually
01:23
probably should record but um
01:24
so and we were talking about uh a whole
01:27
bunch of stuff
01:28
um around the idea of leadership and
01:31
we wanted to talk today on this podcast
01:33
about
01:35
liv well leadership 101 but from a
01:37
waymaker perspective
01:39
yeah yeah um and and i think that’s
01:42
because i mean waymaker as a platform
01:44
is designed to help you be
01:47
a better leader and to help you build
01:50
better leaders
01:52
so it’s uh at its heart
01:55
um we know that better leaders build
01:58
better organizations
02:00
and um build self-sustaining
02:02
organizations
02:03
um yeah so that’s that’s really at the
02:05
very core
02:06
and heart of what we’re doing yes
02:09
waymaker is software
02:10
and waymaker is a toolkit of stuff but
02:14
at its essence if we’re not helping
02:17
people
02:18
um become leaders and be better leaders
02:21
then i don’t think we’re doing our job
02:23
and so yeah that’s the big idea for
02:25
today that’s awesome and
02:26
obviously stew that if you’ve got a
02:28
great business idea and you start a
02:30
business or
02:31
obviously you’re a great leader right
02:33
yeah i think
02:36
sure i think the
02:39
um the fear sometimes in talking about
02:43
leadership
02:44
um is most people go i’m not a great
02:46
leader
02:47
i can’t talk about leadership and that’s
02:50
like
02:51
people going well i’m not a great cook i
02:52
can’t talk about cooking
02:54
no everybody loves to cook
02:57
we all lead in different ways in
03:00
different levels in different things
03:02
as we go about our day you know
03:04
leadership um
03:05
it’s a skill it’s a muscle that we use
03:08
um
03:09
i’m not sitting here pretending to be
03:10
the world’s greatest leaders if i lined
03:12
up all my leadership mistakes
03:14
against all my leadership successes i’d
03:16
probably cry and go home
03:19
but i think leadership is one of those
03:22
things that if we
03:23
don’t talk about um we’re not leading
03:27
and and so we need to
03:30
we need to grab the bull by the horns
03:31
and go okay one of the
03:33
ultimate things that powers an
03:36
organization
03:37
is this gift of leadership that um that
03:40
we have
03:41
as people and how do we grow it and
03:43
build it how do we become students of
03:45
leadership
03:46
in order to be better leaders and one of
03:49
the things that i’ve heard said about
03:51
a lot of bosses and ceos over time not
03:54
not specifically the ones that i’ve
03:56
worked in but you know you just hear
03:57
this
03:57
saying that oh they’re a great manager
03:59
but they’re not a great leader
04:01
what’s what’s the difference how yeah
04:04
how do we pull that difference apart
04:06
um so i think i think this is this
04:09
speaks to the essence of a lot of what
04:10
we’re going to talk today so let’s set
04:12
this context
04:16
we come from the viewpoint that
04:21
leadership and management are two very
04:23
different things
04:25
and the problem is
04:29
people execute the skills of leadership
04:33
and management
04:35
and sometimes we confuse
04:39
the skills of leadership in the skills
04:40
of management and i think we should put
04:42
it this way
04:44
a human being leads and manages
04:47
all at the same time and it’s at
04:49
different
04:50
times is flexing the muscle of
04:53
leadership versus flexing the muscle of
04:55
management
04:56
if i could put it that way and so if we
04:58
put a real quick definition
05:00
um to what leadership and management is
05:03
um
05:03
uh and and i think we’ve absorbed this
05:05
from from great leaders before us this
05:07
isn’t our own
05:08
thinking but leadership is simply
05:11
getting somebody from point a to point b
05:13
um so how do we get somebody or a group
05:17
of people
05:18
from point a to point b i love that um
05:21
it’s that thinking is what sits at the
05:24
very heart of our methodology the
05:25
experience curve
05:27
beginning of point to end of point point
05:30
a to point b
05:31
how do we get a group of people from an
05:34
idea
05:35
to mature market leadership and
05:38
that’s that’s that’s the great
05:42
excitement of organizations management
05:46
is actually helping people do the right
05:49
things at the right time in the right
05:50
way
05:51
on the journey from point a to point b
05:55
and that’s two very different things and
05:58
um they require two different different
06:00
skill sets
06:02
to get people from point a to point b
06:06
and i think what often happens is we
06:09
look at individuals and people and we go
06:11
they’re a great leader but not a great
06:12
manager they’re a great manager and not
06:13
a great leader and
06:15
and all good leaders should be good
06:17
managers and all good managers should be
06:19
good leaders
06:20
and uh and that is a sometimes
06:23
controversial statement is that is that
06:26
in some wonderful magical world
06:28
[Laughter]
06:30
yeah he’s this world we prepared earlier
06:36
well no no it’s not some of the best
06:40
leaders i’ve
06:40
worked for with or around have been
06:44
considered the lowest levels of
06:46
management in an organisation
06:48
and so what we can’t confuse
06:52
is oh they’re the ceo or they’re the
06:54
business
06:56
x person therefore they’re the leader
06:58
well no a leader is just somebody who
07:00
gets
07:00
somebody or a group of people from point
07:02
a to point b um
07:04
and and this the skill of management is
07:07
helping them do the right things at the
07:09
right time
07:09
in the right way uh along that journey
07:12
and so
07:13
um we should we should recognize that
07:16
great leadership and great management
07:18
actually is a skill that needs to sit in
07:21
every member of the organization
07:23
um not what is often called the
07:25
leadership team
07:27
or you know that’s just i i really hate
07:30
that term
07:31
um because you you run an organization a
07:34
business
07:35
that is a leadership team um uh
07:38
come up with another term for it uh
07:39
because you create this wall between
07:41
people who think they are leaders and
07:43
who think they’re not leaders if there’s
07:45
somebody in that organization that has a
07:47
responsibility to meet an objective
07:49
then they are leading and managing to
07:52
get to that objective
07:53
and organizations that i’ve just had um
07:57
you know a great opportunity to thrive
07:59
in and you would
08:00
you would probably think back in times
08:02
like this yourself
08:04
is when that culture permeates that
08:06
there isn’t this one group of people who
08:07
are leaders and this other group of
08:09
people who are doers
08:10
but rather leadership is a skill a
08:12
muscle that we learn and do
08:13
and management is a skill a muscle that
08:15
we learn and do
08:17
and when we do that we transform our
08:19
thinking we change our mindset
08:21
and we begin to think differently about
08:24
how we work with people
08:26
and that i think is the very first step
08:30
in thinking about leadership
08:34
this great um philosopher once said
08:36
stuart lee
08:38
sorry for laughing if if you build
08:40
leaders your business happens
08:45
i think um yeah because i think by
08:48
default good leaders
08:50
do recognize good management um
08:53
and i think we should put a definition
08:55
to that um
08:56
or an explanation to that yeah leaders
08:59
lead
09:00
people managers
09:04
are men or people manage systems
09:07
i stumbled across my own things let me
09:09
say that again leaders lead people
09:11
and people manage systems right
09:15
we we do not manage uh people
09:19
and we do not lead systems
09:22
so leaders lead people
09:26
people manage systems
09:29
people never manage people
09:32
and people never lead systems and if we
09:35
should never
09:36
should never should never yeah if we get
09:38
that ass about
09:39
uh yeah then we tend to end up on our
09:42
ass and so yeah
09:44
i think often um if we look back on our
09:48
own
09:49
errors or mistakes in leadership and
09:50
management often it’s where we get those
09:52
two things wrong
09:54
and so the 101 in leadership and
09:57
management
09:58
leadership getting people from a to b
10:00
management helping them do the right
10:02
things on the right way
10:03
leaders lead people people manage
10:06
systems
10:07
but leaders never manage people
10:11
and we leave bad
10:14
leaders when we feel managed and not
10:18
led and so i think um
10:21
i’ve done that to people they’re my
10:23
mistakes in the past and i’ve had that
10:24
done to me
10:25
and and that they’re the mistakes i’ve
10:27
felt in the past and when i’ve done it
10:29
the right way around
10:31
it’s transformational to the
10:32
relationship
10:35
it’s when we are humans first and
10:39
workers second and that’s that’s
10:41
transformational often
10:43
to many organizations to get that
10:45
foundation right
10:46
and and so let me just repeat it again
10:49
um leadership is getting people or
10:52
somebody from point a to point b
10:54
management is making sure they do the
10:55
right things in the right way at the
10:57
right time
10:58
leaders lead people and people manage
11:00
systems but people
11:01
never manage people
11:05
and people should never lead systems uh
11:08
when we get that ass about we end up on
11:10
our ass
11:12
so i think if we establish that as
11:14
foundational thinking then we’ve got
11:16
somewhere to go
11:18
that’s cool so we we’re um
11:22
we’re talking about like maybe a
11:24
different approach to leadership
11:26
through waymaker so the the waymaker
11:30
way the waymaker approach
11:33
approach to leadership and you’ve got
11:35
some
11:36
well we have some some some frameworks
11:39
to think through
11:40
in terms of the waymaker approach to
11:42
leadership yeah and look
11:43
um our job is to give you a platform
11:47
a software platform and a methodology
11:50
what you do with it uh up to you you can
11:53
choose to use this as much or as little
11:55
as you like but we’re here to help you
11:58
hopefully this helps you do the right
12:00
things in the right way and helps you
12:01
lead people towards better goals
12:03
and so we talk about a waymaker mantra
12:07
and waymaker is designed
12:11
under the context of this mantra so
12:14
the waymaker mantra is
12:17
show the way build the system train the
12:20
leader
12:21
hold them accountable and help them win
12:24
it’s it’s a
12:25
five-step mantra
12:29
and it actually intertwines the ideas
12:33
and skills and muscles of leadership and
12:35
management
12:36
through that mantra so i’ll say it again
12:38
um that the waymaker mantra is show the
12:41
way
12:44
let me say that again show the way i’ve
12:46
got to remember my own mentor show the
12:47
way
12:47
um build the system train the leader
12:49
hold them accountable
12:50
help them win and we should unpack that
12:54
a little bit because
12:55
i want to show how the platform has that
12:59
ethos baked into it so it helps you be a
13:02
better leader and helps your
13:03
you build better leaders awesome all
13:06
right well let’s start with show the way
13:07
then
13:08
well easy um easy easy
13:11
the the first um the first way we show
13:14
the way
13:15
is is actually when you turn on waymaker
13:18
you take your first diagnostic
13:21
and you end up with a benchmark we call
13:24
it an x-score
13:25
and it plants you on a curve and we
13:28
talked about getting from point a to
13:29
point b
13:30
point a in waymaker is an idea this
13:33
organization was once an idea
13:35
point b um is
13:39
it’s probably more like point z but it’s
13:42
market leadership it’s the top of the
13:44
curve ready for the next
13:46
point a and so we want to help people
13:49
organizations get from point a to point
13:51
b and so the very first thing we do is
13:53
show the way
13:54
and to show the way you have to know
13:57
where you are
13:58
on the way and so our diagnostic
14:01
reveals a benchmark and that benchmark
14:03
is an x score
14:04
and you’re going to find a score
14:05
somewhere between 20 or 30 percent
14:08
up to 80 90 100 depending on how good
14:12
you are
14:14
if you’re in your early stages of
14:16
maturity
14:17
you’ll be around 30 40 50
14:20
on the experience curve if you’re
14:23
demonstrating maturity
14:25
then you’re going to be much higher but
14:28
we don’t just leave that as an
14:30
organizational level
14:31
maturity curve um if you’ve been
14:35
listening to any of our podcasts and
14:36
it’s great to hear feedback from
14:38
listeners who have actually you’ll know
14:41
that when we talk about
14:42
um the the system of business
14:46
that it’s actually a system of systems
14:48
and that we we break that up into
14:50
vision market strategy business model
14:52
customer experience and employee
14:54
experience and so
14:56
we then allow that way to break down
15:00
into eight curves and
15:03
eight experience curves vision curve
15:05
market curve
15:07
strategy curve business model curve
15:09
sales marketing service and employee
15:11
expert
15:12
employee experience curve and so there
15:14
is circa
15:16
250 ish data points across those curves
15:20
um which when when you take that
15:22
diagnostic
15:24
is giving you a point on each of those
15:27
curves to start from
15:28
so the very first thing we do is we show
15:30
somebody where they are
15:32
not an individual button organization um
15:35
uh so we we think the the first thing
15:38
you need to know in getting from point a
15:39
to point b
15:40
is where you are between point a and
15:41
point b
15:43
that’s kind of helpful and then if you
15:45
then know
15:46
what the next steps are
15:49
which are really the best practice
15:51
activities on the experience curve
15:53
you can actually start to look ahead and
15:54
go oh my most likely next steps in sales
15:57
or marketing or service
15:59
are these three four or five things so
16:02
we’re showing the way
16:03
and we want leaders to pick up that
16:05
mantra and go are we showing the way
16:08
are we showing you what’s next are we
16:10
are we lifting your eyes forward to how
16:12
you
16:12
improve and how your team improves and
16:14
how the organization improves
16:15
in order to get to our vision and our
16:17
goal make sense great
16:18
yep and so when we talk about build the
16:21
system which is the second point
16:23
are we talking about the system that
16:24
we’ve built for organizations or are we
16:26
saying
16:27
now that you know now that you know what
16:28
your next few steps are now you go off
16:30
and build a system
16:31
yeah the point is that um good
16:34
leadership is about replacing yourself
16:36
and so step one is show the way so you
16:39
have a set of skills
16:40
let’s say you’re an organization of one
16:42
and you hire the next person
16:44
they come in day one what are you gonna
16:46
do you’re gonna start to show them
16:48
how to do the tasks and the things that
16:50
you want them to do
16:52
so you’re going to show the way you’re
16:53
going to start to transfer skills
16:56
so in our methodology skills always
16:59
leads systems and right and so we
17:02
have a set of skills and we go great how
17:05
do we
17:06
um compound the effect of those skills
17:08
we build a system
17:09
so we’re going to show the way um we’re
17:13
going to
17:14
build a system we’re then going to train
17:17
a leader and so
17:19
the very first thing we’re going to do
17:21
is recognize that we need to systemize
17:24
some of the skills we have
17:25
and so when we talk about skills and
17:27
systems on the experience curve
17:30
we’re talking about skills as things i
17:32
know how to do
17:33
and systems as processes tools
17:36
or software that help us do something
17:39
more effectively
17:40
so a tool or a process is like a hammer
17:43
um
17:44
great i’ve got a hammer do i have the
17:45
skills to hit the nail on the head
17:48
great a skill a system a hammer is a
17:50
system
17:51
um it’s a tool it’s a process it’s
17:55
and so we we think about systems like
17:57
tools
17:58
and so as i get more advanced i might
18:00
move from hitting a hammer
18:02
to maybe um
18:05
breaking up concrete now i need a
18:07
jackhammer i’ve got a way more powerful
18:09
hammer you get where i’m going i won’t
18:10
go any further
18:11
because my analogy so this knowledge is
18:13
going to break down
18:13
[Laughter]
18:15
so um our mantra you could go to a
18:18
wrecking ball you could go to a wrecking
18:19
ball after that thank you
18:20
yeah yeah right up to dynamite blowing
18:24
up a building yeah
18:26
sorry uh i think you get the point yeah
18:29
the
18:30
the message here is the mantra is um
18:32
show the way
18:33
build the system train the leader so
18:35
where how do we transfer skills out of
18:37
me
18:38
and and i’ve got to lead and i’ve got to
18:41
manage
18:42
so i’m going to show this person where
18:43
they’re going and i’m going to give them
18:45
the skills
18:46
to how to do the right thing in the
18:47
right way at the right time cool
18:49
yeah that’s a system does that make
18:51
sense yep
18:52
and and so when we’re talking about
18:54
training the leader then we’re
18:56
we’re talking about how to uh equip them
18:59
to use the tools
19:01
um most effectively to reach point b
19:04
yes correct yeah and in doing so
19:08
um there’s a there’s a hard skill and a
19:10
soft skill transferred
19:12
the hard skill is i know how to pick up
19:15
the hammer and hit it
19:16
the soft skill is oh i’m beginning to
19:19
understand what you’re doing
19:21
you’re you’re teaching showing helping
19:24
me understand how this hammer works to
19:26
build the house
19:26
i see the house and and so the soft
19:29
skill
19:30
is really where the leadership starts to
19:32
to grow and so
19:33
we should never think about building the
19:37
system and training the leader as
19:38
just pure functional um because if we
19:41
are to
19:43
build the system and train the leader we
19:45
should teach them how to do it for the
19:46
next person
19:48
and um and so when i come in and see
19:52
oh this is how i use this tool i’m being
19:54
trained on how to use it
19:55
i’m only effective if i can do that for
19:58
the next person
19:59
and otherwise we actually haven’t
20:03
we haven’t transferred leadership we
20:04
haven’t taught leadership we haven’t
20:06
showed them
20:07
showed them how to help another person
20:09
get from point a
20:10
to point b we haven’t replicated
20:12
ourselves so leadership is in the
20:14
business of replication and compounding
20:17
okay can we park on train the leader
20:19
just just for a moment seems so
20:21
this episode is all about leadership um
20:25
stu you talk about the five functions of
20:26
a leader um
20:28
and so that might actually be a really
20:29
cool framework to talk about well how
20:31
how might we actually go about training
20:33
leaders or equipping leaders
20:35
to get to point b yeah and look this
20:38
um this isn’t rocket science it’s just a
20:41
little mantra
20:43
to be honest i’ve i’ve learned and
20:45
adapted over the years
20:46
and i try and practice myself and i’ve
20:50
noticed it as
20:52
as i moved into coaching and consulting
20:54
with other senior leaders
20:56
that the biggest problem we have as
20:59
leaders
21:01
is time to step back um time to get out
21:04
of the doing
21:05
and into the thinking and so this little
21:07
five function it’s just
21:09
it sits neatly under the waymaker way
21:12
which is just as a leader you need you
21:14
need to think you need to plan
21:17
you need to inspire you need to equip um
21:20
and you need to empower
21:22
um and it’s really basic
21:26
but that first thing is thinking and you
21:28
could almost take your diary
21:30
and you could look at it and you could
21:32
go how much of my diary
21:34
is actually spent on thinking time
21:38
and most of the leaders that
21:42
that i listened to in those early days
21:44
of of listening around how their
21:46
organization is going is
21:48
is actually just swamped i don’t have
21:50
time to think
21:52
and in fact one of the first rules of
21:55
war
21:55
is to disorient your enemy it’s you know
21:59
go and read the art of war disorienting
22:02
your enemy is one of the first steps
22:05
and most powerful steps to make them
22:08
useless
22:09
and so some of the greatest battles um
22:12
in history have been won from the
22:14
smaller force disorienting the larger
22:16
force
22:17
and so many of our leaders and people
22:20
leading
22:21
get disoriented because they don’t step
22:24
back to re-orient um
22:28
why am i doing what i’m doing what am i
22:30
achieving in doing this
22:32
how are we going what’s working what’s
22:33
not what are the
22:35
divergent voices saying what are the
22:37
who’s who’s arguing against me who’s
22:39
telling me different things to what i
22:41
want to hear what’s that what’s going on
22:43
where’s the market moving what are our
22:45
customers really saying
22:46
um what’s the bs coming up the line that
22:49
i need to ignore and
22:50
what’s the truth coming through that
22:52
i’ve got to grab a hold of and you know
22:54
all those things
22:55
take time and my worst periods of life
22:59
have been periods when i’ve been over
23:01
scheduled over hyped over busy
23:04
and my best and most profitable times of
23:07
life
23:08
have been when there’s been margins at
23:11
the edges
23:12
and because that’s the time
23:15
to think which leads to better planning
23:18
so this think plan inspired
23:20
thinking time thinking actually helps
23:22
you be a better planner
23:24
um bringing the right people around you
23:26
thinking about the right things to do
23:29
um and once you’ve planned you’ve got to
23:32
go and sell that plan
23:35
hopefully you’re able to inspire others
23:37
who have been involved in thinking
23:38
through that planning with where that’s
23:40
going to get us
23:40
it’s the leadership bit and then we’ve
23:43
got to
23:44
um what do i say equipment in power
23:46
which is very much the
23:47
okay who’s on board what what skills and
23:50
systems do you need
23:51
um great you’ve got them now get on with
23:54
it
23:54
um and so that little kind of five
23:57
functions of leadership
23:58
is a little mantra that i try and live
24:00
by and catch myself around and
24:02
help others in our team and and
24:04
community live around too
24:06
so rewind 20 years ago stu we you and i
24:09
were very good at
24:10
time spent thinking with it
24:13
with a red wine we were quite
24:15
disciplined at the thinking stage
24:17
i think planning a few less distractions
24:19
at the time
24:22
yeah we had no kids that was wives
24:23
children yeah businesses
24:25
all that sort of stuff but um it’s
24:28
really great to see that you know
24:29
waymaker has
24:30
actually like gone through the whole
24:32
five and here we are empowering
24:35
people to go and do it themselves well i
24:37
hope so yeah i know it is cool
24:39
but yeah look i think um
24:42
uh i think when you’re young and ideal
24:44
you do have time
24:46
to think and imagine and come up with
24:48
world-changing ideas
24:52
you’ve got to have reality checks on
24:53
those and
24:55
think about how to manage through them
24:56
you know we’re talking about leadership
24:58
and management and
25:01
you know i i often tell the story when i
25:03
lived in
25:04
corporation world which was some of the
25:07
best and worst times of my life but so
25:08
often
25:11
a leader a ceo would come in and
25:15
sell a vision to us and they’d go hey
25:18
we’re going to have an amazing year
25:19
we’re going to sell so much it’s going
25:20
to be amazing
25:21
we’re going to be the market leaders and
25:24
blah blah blah blah
25:26
and um somewhere in there
25:29
uh would drop out that our targets had
25:33
increased
25:34
um but our resources had decreased
25:39
and that the reality of the equipping
25:43
for the vision um uh
25:46
didn’t exist and right and and
25:49
and what was appearing was a gap and you
25:52
know in this podcast and in the
25:53
waymaker world we always talk about you
25:55
know the enemy is the gap
25:58
would be this chasm between somebody
26:01
thinking they’re doing great leadership
26:03
things which is selling big visions
26:06
but then doing really bad management
26:08
things by going
26:10
okay we’re not going to give you the
26:13
skills and the resources to get there
26:15
and when you create that gap when
26:18
when you don’t manage well which is
26:21
equipping and empowering people
26:23
um sorry um providing people with the
26:26
right skills and systems
26:27
um to do the right things at the right
26:30
time
26:30
um then you all you create is just
26:34
uh that’s that’s just that’s just ivory
26:37
tower talk
26:38
um and and so the idea of leadership is
26:42
to
26:42
think plan inspired but to provide the
26:45
right level of skills
26:47
and resources and tools to get the job
26:50
done
26:51
no builder in his or her right mind
26:54
walks up to a building site and says
26:55
we’re going to build a house
26:57
and then says but we don’t have hammers
26:58
drills timber and materials
27:01
and you know just imagine what would go
27:03
on if that happened
27:05
and if you take that and you put that
27:07
into typical organization land and
27:09
corporate world
27:10
how often does that happen and so part
27:12
of waymaker is helping
27:14
um educate people on the ridiculous of
27:17
that moment
27:18
so they can actually reap the benefit of
27:21
great leadership
27:22
and great management um and achieve more
27:25
while doing less
27:27
so we’ve talked about showing the way
27:29
build the system train the leader and
27:30
that actually
27:32
what you’ve just talked about takes us
27:33
to our fourth point we just hold them
27:34
accountable and i just have a question
27:36
on that one before you
27:37
start roofing is um it’s it’s both
27:40
it’s both uh downwards in the
27:44
organizational chart and upwards i would
27:46
imagine like the accountability
27:48
is is both ways that’s right uh
27:52
and and that’s how waymaker um helps
27:54
organizations because
27:58
it’s transparent it’s accountable um
28:02
anybody i’ll talk talk about us as
28:04
waymaker
28:05
anybody inside waymaker can see
28:07
waymaker’s
28:08
long-term strategic goal and all our
28:10
short-term
28:12
goals to get there and
28:16
you can see your name you can see what
28:17
it is you can see the progress towards
28:19
it
28:20
it’s accountable that that’s why we love
28:22
the the foundational methodology of of
28:25
okrs as a goal-setting methodology
28:27
it’s transparent it’s accountable it’s
28:29
clear at any given moment in time
28:32
i can see exactly where an individual is
28:35
at and that individual can see exactly
28:37
where i’m at if we’re all climbing the
28:39
mountain getting from point a to point b
28:42
then we all need to know where each
28:43
other’s at that’s kind of the first rule
28:46
of
28:46
outdoor air isn’t it um if you can’t see
28:50
your team
28:50
stop walking um so if you can’t see your
28:54
team and what they’re doing
28:56
stop get on the same page and get going
29:00
were you in boy scouts just out of
29:02
curiosity i i
29:04
did what our school’s equivalent was it
29:06
was called outdoor education and i i
29:08
liked it
29:08
i took it all the way through to year 12
29:10
before uh before uni
29:12
and then i spent a year in england
29:14
actually being a boy scout
29:17
kind of throwing a seat i didn’t
29:18
thirteen years around yeah it was lots
29:20
of fun
29:22
backwards back when i looked like yeah
29:24
yeah yeah that’s it
29:26
didn’t we all didn’t we all uh show the
29:29
way
29:29
build the system train the leader hold
29:31
them accountable and then lastly
29:33
help them win um
29:37
you only win if the people around you
29:40
win
29:40
that’s where this is getting to you know
29:42
waymaker is
29:44
set up to quickly diagnose gaps
29:47
in skills and systems across the system
29:50
of business
29:51
to set a roadmap of where we need to get
29:53
to and then to
29:55
make clear all the goals that need to
29:57
happen
29:58
and and that’s that means that if i have
30:02
a goal
30:03
and there’s three people around me with
30:06
goals
30:07
and let’s say i’m leading them as a team
30:10
then
30:10
i need to make sure that they’ve got the
30:13
right goals
30:14
and that those goals actually lead
30:16
towards my goals being achieved
30:18
[Music]
30:19
that’s kind of common sense if we’re all
30:22
moving together
30:23
doing different things but in the same
30:25
direction then we achieve more
30:27
if we’re all doing different things
30:29
moving in different directions
30:31
then we’re all doing more and achieving
30:33
less and we need to
30:35
do less and achieve more we need we need
30:37
to make sure we’re all working
30:39
in the same direction um and working
30:41
well so
30:42
the the whole point of helping them win
30:45
um
30:46
is baked into waymaker this philosophy
30:48
of
30:49
people who have goals around you you
30:51
actually need to help them win with that
30:53
goal
30:53
um so we we talk about roadblocks in
30:56
fact
30:57
question one in the seventh question is
30:58
what is our vision um
31:00
is it driven by our purpose and what
31:02
roadblocks exist
31:04
um to to stop us getting there and and
31:07
um part of our basic fundamentals in the
31:10
system
31:11
of waymaker the platform is to surface
31:13
roadblocks
31:15
is this goal still progressing well
31:19
does it have a roadblock if it has a
31:20
roadblock then bring that to the team
31:23
um if you if you are blocked then bring
31:26
that to the team
31:27
and let the team help you unblock that
31:29
it and this is the shift in kind of 20th
31:32
century
31:34
mindsets into 21st century adaptive
31:36
mindsets
31:37
it used to be a sin to go i don’t know
31:40
or
31:40
i’m not achieving and so you’d kind of
31:43
shut up
31:44
and try and hope nobody noticed um
31:48
it’s not a sin to stick your hand up and
31:50
go i’ve got a roadblock
31:52
what we thought four weeks ago we could
31:54
achieve something’s changed
31:56
i can’t fix it but i think if we come
31:59
together and the two or three people
32:00
around
32:01
we can all fix it together um great
32:04
let’s fix it
32:05
uh and remove the roadblock and so you
32:07
know leader’s job
32:10
in equipping and powering is to remove
32:11
roadblocks if you get the roadblocks out
32:13
of the way
32:14
of your team then they can get their job
32:15
done and if
32:17
if you’re not actively removing
32:18
roadblocks then your team isn’t telling
32:20
you about the roadblocks they’re having
32:22
which they’re guaranteed to be having
32:26
then you know the communication’s down
32:28
the focus is down
32:29
it’s you’re just going to get to the end
32:31
of the quarter going why didn’t we get
32:32
there
32:33
oh because this this this and this and
32:35
suddenly the whole thing descends into
32:36
disaster
32:37
um so rapid
32:40
surfacing of roadblocks under the
32:43
context of help each other win
32:46
because there’s only one way to play the
32:48
game and that is
32:49
to win and in order to win you’ve got to
32:53
win
32:53
together one person doesn’t win a team
32:55
wins um
32:57
uh i’m i’m getting on my high horse now
32:59
but i’ll slow down
33:00
yeah yeah no that’s
33:03
that’s awesome and i mean the whole the
33:05
whole point of the waymaker platform is
33:07
to help business owners be better
33:09
leaders to identify these things to step
33:11
through these
33:11
these five uh points that we’ve just
33:13
talked about show the way build the
33:15
system train the leader hold them
33:16
accountable
33:17
help them win stu there is a course on
33:20
the waymaker academy
33:21
called leadership and management do you
33:23
want to just speak into that briefly
33:25
before we finish today yeah i mean
33:29
our vision is to um
33:32
help leaders build better organizations
33:36
which means helping them build leaders
33:38
and so
33:39
uh waymaker academy is
33:42
we call it bite-sized brilliance to help
33:44
you along your way and
33:45
and every user on waymaker has
33:48
free access into wi-maker academy
33:51
there’s only one
33:52
current paid course and and that’s to
33:54
get your advisor certification if you’re
33:56
coaching and consulting on the platform
33:58
um everything else is is free and we
34:01
intend to keep it that way we’re growing
34:03
that every month dropping new content in
34:06
so jump in search leadership and
34:07
management there’s foundational
34:09
leadership management 101 what we’ve
34:11
been talking about
34:12
if you’re a leader or a manager share it
34:14
with your team um
34:16
get them to jump through it you know
34:18
it’s it’s super simple stuff and
34:20
um these are the things that uh someone
34:22
jokingly said to me you can do in the
34:24
coffee shop
34:25
on the bus on the way home or sitting on
34:27
the toilet um
34:29
it’s it’s a it’s a short course that’ll
34:31
take you no no more than
34:33
five to 15 minutes to get through
34:37
and that will help you instill
34:40
um the inspiration of where you’re going
34:42
and also equip and empower them to think
34:44
about leadership in a new and better way
34:48
that’s awesome always as always stu it’s
34:50
uh it’s great to chat to you about all
34:52
things leadership management
34:54
world-changing uh paradigms etc etc
34:57
um but we would encourage anybody who’s
35:00
listening to jump on waymaker.io sign up
35:02
for a free trial you can access that
35:04
leadership and management course
35:06
you know when you sign up for the free
35:07
trial right so um
35:09
jump on there do the free trial can’t
35:11
see your subscription doesn’t matter
35:13
it doesn’t matter you know what um do we
35:16
care of course we care
35:17
but if that’s helped you then fine do
35:20
that
35:20
do that and if you can’t afford your
35:22
subscription just reach out to us and
35:24
talk to us we’ll help you anyway
35:25
oh look at that all right well stu um as
35:28
always it’s great to chat to you
35:30
i love talking about how to achieve more
35:31
by doing less and we’re going to do that
35:33
again in our next episode
35:47
[Music]
35:52
you

Waymaker.io is designed to help you build better leaders

Better leaders build better organisations.

Waymaker is a software platform and a methodology, that will help you be a better leader and then build better leaders.

How?

Quite simply, every quarter everyone helps find gaps, plans how to close those gaps and then owns their own goals (OKRs) to get the job done.

Team member are learning to see the future, become aware of their gaps, think about how to close them, work on skills and systems to close them and own the outcomes.

Let’s bust a myth, we don’t have to be experts to talk about leadership.

This can be a conversation you can have in your organisation, at whatever level of leadership you’re at.

Leadership & management are different things, but never exclusively apart

Our view at Waymaker is that leadership and management are two very different things.

But, they are never exclusively apart. In the podcast we talk about how as employees we can default into talking about a person as a ‘manager’ or a ‘leader’.

This sets up a false idea of what leadership and management is.

A human leads and manages at the same time.

At different times they are flexing the muscle of leadership, and at other times flexing the muscle of management.

Sometimes they’ll flex both together to do the heavy lifting!

What is leadership & management?

Leadership is simply getting someone or a group of people from point a to point b.

Management is doing the right things, in the right way at the right time, along that journey.

Leadership vs management Waymaker

This is the thinking that sits at the very heart of our framework, The Experience Curve.

Great leaders can exist at all levels inside an organisation

Hierarchy is deceptive. Great leadership and great management can and should exist at every level of the organisation.

There is not just one group of people who are leaders at the top of the organisation, rather, the skills and systems of leadership and management can and should be developed at every level.

Leaders lead people, people manage systems

In the podcast we explore the principle that as people we never manage people and we should never lead systems.

Rather, leaders lead people and people management systems.

If you are inspired or passionate about leadership and management, access the Leadership & Management course and playbook in Waymaker Academy.

The Waymaker Academy is free to all users of Waymaker.

If you’re working with a certified Advisor, ask them to facilitate a leadership & management session using the Leadership & Management course tools and canvas.

This will help you establish a leadership culture in your team.

Listen to the podcast here:

The Waymaker mantra

The Waymaker mantra is:

“Show the way,
build the system,
train the leader,
hold them accountable,
and help them win.”

Contained within this one phrase are:

The fundamentals of leading and managing

We show the way to those around us.

This means as leader’s we have wrestled with the problem ourselves.

We do not demand someone to ‘figure it out for themselves’ and then get on with the job, rather as leaders we empower those, we lead with the illumination of how so they can see us make it happen.

The application of skills and systems

We put a system into place (a process, a tool or some technology) that helps the next leader repeat the process with high quality, and overtime improve and get better.

The respect of learning

We put learning materials together to help the next leader gain the wisdom we have.

The responsibility of accountability

If a job is worth doing, it’s worth being held accountable.

Excellence comes from setting, holding and lifting standards.

The joy of servant leadership

Great leaders help others win.

If you help the next leader win, you have made your job easier and that of your team members.

About Waymaker

Waymaker enables strategic alignment on teams of 2 to 2,000+.

Waymaker is the intelligent business strategy platform that helps you build the organisation of the future, today.

Find your growth gaps, build your roadmaps, align your team with OKRs and see exactly what is needed to win your quarter.

Sign up for a free 30 day trial of Waymaker.io

By <a href="https://waymaker.io/author/stuart-leo/" target="_self">Stuart Leo</a>

By Stuart Leo

Published on June 24, 2021

Stuart is the CEO & Founder of Waymaker. Stuart is a passionate believer in helping people find their organisation's true north and giving them the tools to get them there. When not exploring new ideas in leadership and management, Stuart is with his family exploring the beautiful regions, islands and coast of Australia.

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